Feedback : New design for the Board

[Vaibhav]

Okay Friends,
After months of delay, We finally have the new design live for ExcelForum

I will like to have every ones feedback about the design and anything you think will make it look better can still be incorporated.

Thanks
Vaibhav Kakkar

[teylyn]

quoting zbor from this post http://www.excelforum.com/exceltip-c...me-banner.html

How to remove Welcome to our forums...

untitled.JPG

I know new members should have tips but what about us (a little older )

- This ain't my first visit
- I've check FAQ
- I am registered
- and it takes half of my monitor

[zbor]

I would also suggest a darker font or background for Forum Rules:

untitled2.JPG

[Vaibhav]

quoting zbor from this post http://www.excelforum.com/exceltip-c...me-banner.html

Will it be fine if this is only shown to the unregistered users ?

I would also suggest a darker font or background for Forum Rules:

Attachment 62316

Done !!

Design team is working on new Icons as well...

Please keep the feedback coming ...

[zbor]

Will it be fine if this is only shown to the unregistered users ?

How about less than 10 posts? IF that's option avilable...

[teylyn]

Vai!

Some first impressions off the top of my head:

- it's great that there are no advertisements. Hopefully it can stay this way

- I definitely like the Edit/Quote/Multiquote buttons at the bottom of a post. They look fresh and clean.

- I agree with zbor that the title section with the "Welcome to the forum" takes way too much space but does not add value for anyone but a first time visitor

- the old style icons now look quite dated. Especially the balance scales icon in the title bar of the post is hard to see and recognise for what it is, and the icons for the editor look positively DOS 3.0. PM me if you need suggestions for alternatives.

- links in signatures now appear grey, and are no longer recognizable as links unless manually formatted. Maybe there could be some clever CSS workaround?

- links in posts (see my previous post where I link to zbor's thread) are only recognisable as links when you hover over them, then they change to green. A permanent color or underline would be more obvious.

- I like the forum statistics on the left and hope that the information displayed there will soon be accurate.

- the button for closed threads is not as obvious as the previous version was. Maybe something more powerful might be in order.

- the regulars here have become used to the grey background of the old version, and now the bright white background seems to be too stark a contrast. But I think that we'll get used to that fairly quickly and that the b/w contrast is actually better than the grey background of old. Don't we all like Google for the clean white background?!

I'm sure more things will surface as we all get used to the new look and feel and I'm glad to hear that you are happy to implement changes.

[zbor]

I would also like to add one (less important) thing...

Instead of old style icon to write new! for new threads:

untitled4.JPG

[zbor]

- Also I had problem finding Edit options for username until contamined pointed me at Quick links...

I think should be available someowhere when you click on your own name too

[teylyn]

just noticed that if the navigation bar is forced onto two lines because of smaller screen size or resizing the window, the last few items roll over into a new line but lose the blue background ....

[Andy Pope]

You need to check the css in both IE and Firefox. Wrapping, formatting and resizing is different.

Also what size screen are you aiming at. I have a 22" monitor @1680 and I have to have the browser at least 2/3rds screen width.

Do you really need to login places on the main screen?

Unable to read "Welcome Guests" when you use yellow text on white/faint gray background.
Same for white text that wraps onto pale background.

[Andy Pope]

Why when registered and signed in does the register option appear in the blue menu bar at the top?

Why the mixture of drop down menus?
Compare 'Excel Tips' to 'Community'

"Latest Posts" and "Forum Statistics" should be moved from left hand side to right or bottom. Currently a great chunk of screen space is wasted for little useful information.

[Vaibhav]

Vai!

Some first impressions off the top of my head:

- it's great that there are no advertisements. Hopefully it can stay this way

I Wish it could remain ad free but sadly we will have to put some ads to keep things moving fine but as i said before we will try and make sure that user experience is not hampered.

- I definitely like the Edit/Quote/Multiquote buttons at the bottom of a post. They look fresh and clean.

Thanks

- I agree with zbor that the title section with the "Welcome to the forum" takes way too much space but does not add value for anyone but a first time visitor

Already being worked upon, for the time being we are removing it for the registered users and then later on will try and have it only for the users who have 10 or less posts or unregistered users.

- the old style icons now look quite dated. Especially the balance scales icon in the title bar of the post is hard to see and recognise for what it is, and the icons for the editor look positively DOS 3.0. PM me if you need suggestions for alternatives.

We are getting new icons done but might take a couple of days for them to completely go live..

- links in signatures now appear grey, and are no longer recognizable as links unless manually formatted. Maybe there could be some clever CSS workaround?

Will surely have a workaround for this implemented asap. Will blue be okay ?

- links in posts (see my previous post where I link to zbor's thread) are only recognisable as links when you hover over them, then they change to green. A permanent color or underline would be more obvious.

[QUOTE=teylyn;2231086]

Will get this corrected as well

- I like the forum statistics on the left and hope that the information displayed there will soon be accurate.

Corrected

- the button for closed threads is not as obvious as the previous version was. Maybe something more powerful might be in order.

Can you please point me to this button ?

- the regulars here have become used to the grey background of the old version, and now the bright white background seems to be too stark a contrast. But I think that we'll get used to that fairly quickly and that the b/w contrast is actually better than the grey background of old. Don't we all like Google for the clean white background?!

Yes i do agree with your words here but we are still open to all suggestions.

I'm sure more things will surface as we all get used to the new look and feel and I'm glad to hear that you are happy to implement changes.

I would also like to add one (less important) thing...

Instead of old style icon to write new! for new threads:

Attachment 62318

Already being worked upon ..

How about less than 10 posts? IF that's option avilable...

Should not be difficult but for now we are just removing them for registered users and working on other changes simultaneously

- Also I had problem finding Edit options for username until contamined pointed me at Quick links...

I think should be available someowhere when you click on your own name too

Can you please point me to it ?

just noticed that if the navigation bar is forced onto two lines because of smaller screen size or resizing the window, the last few items roll over into a new line but lose the blue background ....

Can you please take a screen shot for this ? What is the resolution of your screen ?

[zbor]

just noticed that if the navigation bar is forced onto two lines because of smaller screen size or resizing the window, the last few items roll over into a new line but lose the blue background ....

For IE and Google chrome as well

[teylyn]

Andy,

Why the mixture of drop down menus?
Compare 'Excel Tips' to 'Community'

I think this is due to "Excel Tips" being a custom menu and "Community" being a standard configurable Vbulletin item. Would be great if the same behaviour and look could be applied to both, i.e.

- hover: either pop up all expandable menus or don't pop up any
- coloring - be consistend with drop down menu colors

[teylyn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by teylyn View Post
- the button for closed threads is not as obvious as the previous version was. Maybe something more powerful might be in order.

Can you please point me to this button ?

see here for example. At the top of the thread, where other posts say "New Post", this one says "Closed", but it does not "stick out" enough

http://www.excelforum.com/excel-prog...tachments.html

Originally Posted by teylyn View Post
just noticed that if the navigation bar is forced onto two lines because of smaller screen size or resizing the window, the last few items roll over into a new line but lose the blue background ....

Can you please take a screen shot for this ? What is the resolution of your screen ?
Edit/Delete Message

My screen resolution does not matter. What matters is that if the nav bar does not fit into the screen width (either because of lower screen rez or sized window) the navbar breaks up into two lines and the second line is not rendered consistently with the first. See attachment.

[protonLeah]

1 vote for statistics box on the left
1 vote for the current color scheme
(personally I prefer blue for the default font color for posts as well

[zbor]

I agree with teylyn on consistence.

About pop-up I don't know is it just me.. but I always had problems with it (new and old forum).

It's just don't open and always I have that bar upthere wich I can't get rid off.
Whenever open messages or inserting link.
And I use other vBulletin forum where I don't have this problem.

Just a reminder how it was

http://www.newhostgatorcoupon.com/im...etin-forum.png

I like it with 2 bacground colors (divided by columns, as at link) than just one (as it now)... But it's just my opinion.. Not an issue...

[NBVC]

The Who's Online option keeps erroring out on me!

[DonkeyOte]

The Who's Online option keeps erroring out on me!

I suspect that this remains a Mod specific issue NBVC...

[Jogier505]

I like the new design in general, but for the sake of us seniors, who do not see as well as we used to, I would be in favor of more contrast in the text. Light blue and greys are nice to look at but not the easiest to read at my age.

Thanks for all the good work and the opportunity to comment.

Jim O

[shg]

Where's the link to the forum rules?

[ConneXionLost]

Where's the link to the forum rules?

It seems to only appear in the "Forum Jump" list in the lower right corner.

[zbor]

Where's the link to the forum rules?

On the Home page.

But I've tried to find it aswell... It should be on the blue line above...

[Simon Lloyd]

Where's the link to the forum rules?

For those interested, you can take a look in the FAQs but then all links appear as text, however you can find the forum rules here http://www.excelforum.com/forum-rule...rum-rules.html

[hoffey]

While I don't mind the white background, I believe there is simply too much white. If you have the body of the posts be white, then maybe the body of the page can be CCC or some other color. White allows me to focus, and right now I am focus on the page as a whole instead of the important content (the posts!)

Or maybe the inverse of that where the body of the posts is grey. It could be that I am just so used to the older layout that I am trying to gripe though.

[martindwilson]

i find it difficult to read and have to change my brightness for comfort
is it possible to have choose-able skins?

[zbor]

i find it difficult to read and have to change my brightness for comfort
is it possible to have choose-able skins?

Thank you Lord, I thought it's just me

[ConneXionLost]

i find it difficult to read and have to change my brightness for comfort
is it possible to have choose-able skins?

I completely agree about the brightness. The white is blinding and makes reading very difficult. It even washes out the box lines. Choosable skins would offer a great solution!

[sentinela]

Your statistics does not work. Or if it does, I cannot see the numbers.

[NBVC]

Your statistics does not work. Or if it does, I cannot see the numbers.

If you click Home.. you will see general stats, in the individual forums...doesn't seem to work correctly, if at all...

[NBVC]

So it doesn't error out for non-Mods?

Also, before it didn't error out on me as much.. maybe once or twice a day...

[DonkeyOte]

I find it errors out a lot... perhaps someone on a non-Mod profile could confirm ?

From what I recall there is a particular section on info specific to the Mod view which I would hazard a guess is generated by a hideously inefficient SQL join leading to query timeouts.

[zbor]

Here's prtscr:

new-1.jpg

1st is Excel Help Forum (seems to be working)
2nd is General (blank)
3rd is post within general (blank, OK for total posts)

Also there are 2 users currently browsing forums...
I think this is wrong and I'll test it does it changes.

Edit: Seems to be OK... 1,2,3.. didn't find post with more than 3 people at the time.. But AFAIC it's OK.

[peri1224]

The forum statistics column consumes almost a third of the screen but is practically empty. You see only blank space on the left side. Maybe that info can be placed at the top or bottom, so that the left margin doesn't go to waste.

[zbor]

Is it possible to have [solved] button in first post so it can be eaisly marked when solution is provided?

[StephenR]

I think it's a great improvement in many ways - it's much cleaner and neater. My only point would be the one already made that grey text on white is not the easiest to read, and probably a real struggle for anyone with eyesight problems. A black font would be better, perhaps on a pale background, or, even better, alternatives as suggested above.

[blane245]

I have been having one problem, but I don't think it's the new design and I don't know where else to post it. I am not receiving instant email notifications of the threads to which I am subscribed. I'm sure it's some setting somewhere, but can't find it. Please help.

[teylyn]

Blane, click User CP, then Edit Options in the left hand navigation, then in the Messaging & Notification panel use the options in the dropdown list for "Default thread subscription mode"

[blane245]

The option is set to "Instant email notification" :-(

[matt4003]

I like the new site! Thanks for all the hard work!

Only thing I can think of is the [SOLVED] process. Not sure if you have been to Accessforums.net but they have a similar (to your old site) interface. However, their [SOLVED] process is more intuitive, it actually lists as an option in the thread tools, no need to go to advanced edit, etc. Or maybe this changed and I missed it.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the great site!

Cheers,
Matt

[teylyn]

The member's Excel version no longer shows in the post header. This is essential information to provide solutions that may differ between the Excel versions.

The board used to show the last time I was active before the current session. This info now no longer shows.

The forum statistics to the left are useless with the views New Posts and Today's Posts. They don't provide any information and just take away valuable screen real estate.

The all bold text in the posts in Internet Explorer is counter-productive. Any previous emphasis with bolding no longer shows, see for example the Forum Rules. Bold can no longer be used to emphasize a word. The post font looks fine in Firefox, bolding is possible, although the signature text is very gray and weak.

These cross-browser differences should not happen.

Links in a post are hard to recognise. They are a bit paler than the normal text, and only come up in color upon mouse hover. As such they are easily overlooked. Links should be recognizable by different color, like blue, and it won't hurt to underline them for extra emphasis.

[shg]

Concur with T on all points.

[NBVC]

Take a look at one of our "sister" site pages: http://www.exceltip.com/training.php...rea=consulting

Can you see anything?... No sure how much business that's going to lure...

[Simon Lloyd]

Take a look at one of our "sister" site pages: http://www.exceltip.com/training.php...rea=consulting

Can you see anything?... No sure how much business that's going to lure...

It must be night time there lol!

[zbor]

Take a look at one of our "sister" site pages: http://www.exceltip.com/training.php...rea=consulting

Can you see anything?... No sure how much business that's going to lure...

When you read it - you've passed a first lesson
If you can't read and apply you won't finnish Excel training anyway

[darkyam]

Well, while we're suggesting changes, I've never really cared for the Excel General forum showing that it has unread posts when I've read all the posts in it and the unread posts are really in the Excel - New User forum. Same for Programming and Worksheet Functions (also, why is Worksheet Functions part of Programming and not General?), and the various forums under Miscellaneous. I understand it on the home page where you only show the six main forums for Excel, but could we change this for http://www.excelforum.com/microsoft-...el-help-forum/?

[teylyn]

Attached three screenshots of the same screen taken with different browsers

- Firefox
- Internet Explorer 8
- Safari (for Windows)

Can someone please go to the testing forum and snap the "testing" post by scrunch with Chrome? I don't want to install it just for that one thing.

See how some browsers have all bold text in the post, Firefox correctly shows normal and bold text.
Note how the code box has fixed width font (or at least a serif with fairly close to fixed width) in IE8 and Safari, and Firefox has something that looks like Arial.
See how hard it is to distinguish between the text and the links. In all three versions.

The CSS designer does not deserve the name. Luckily enough, we don't need to shoot the tester, because it's quite apparent that nobody did any testing.

Banana skin.

Open each attachment in a separate tab and then click back and forwards to compare ....

[zbor]

Chrome (Updated)

untitled5.JPG

[teylyn]

Thanks zbor! apart from Firefox the post text is bold in every browser. Makes it so darn hard to read, that I don't feel like looking at more than one paragraph.

New forum motto: be brief

[zbor]

Thanks zbor! apart from Firefox the post text is bold in every browser. Makes it so darn hard to read, that I don't feel like looking at more than one paragraph.

New forum motto: be brief

Now designer wondering: Who would use anything else than FF

[Vaibhav]

Hello Every one,
Gathering all feedback now and will implement most of the things like the text and links today itself.
Will revert to individual feedback in some time...
Keep the suggestions coming

[DonkeyOte]

Vai, just to reiterate Teylyn's earlier points - the below is an essential fix:

-- Excel Version per Profile must be shown in the Post Header
(I would have bolded Profile but on my browser ...)

Deprecating one of the profoundly useful pieces of info. hardly seems logical.

-- Forum Statistics

What purpose does this serve other than to take up a significant portion of the screen width ?

If this is to be shown (depsite being flakey) it should be done so somewhere where it has no impact on the rendering of the actually important bits of info - ie at the bottom somewhere

On a final note - as touched on by darkyam and as raised repeatedly before - aesthetic changes are just that. I for one would much rather see this "development" time spent restructuring the Forums into a logical / succinct hierarchy - this has been brought up by the Mods on countless occasions before... though I concede that at least if people get lost in the myriad of forums they are now at least a little better to look at - browser pending of course...

[Vaibhav]

Vai, just to reiterate Teylyn's earlier points - the below is an essential fix:

-- Excel Version per Profile must be shown in the Post Header
(I would have bolded Profile but on my browser ...)

Done

Deprecating one of the profoundly useful pieces of info. hardly seems logical.

-- Forum Statistics

What purpose does this serve other than to take up a significant portion of the screen width ?

Dev Team is Working on this section..

Is it not possible to place # button, which adds code tages, in quick reply field?

Dev team is working on this function...

[martindwilson]

now at work with 17" monitor set at 1024X768 using ie7
and the screen doesntlook right something has wrapped see image
using same pc looks ok in firefox 3.5.7

[DonkeyOte]

can someone please explain to me why the font for Edit text & forum header text is now bigger than the font used in the actual post ?

Are we (members) on a different planet ?

Does anyone have an HTML / CSS guide handy anywhere...

EDIT: seemingly fixed...

[blane245]

I'm bumping the question. If this is the wrong forum for it, someone please redirect me.

I have been having one problem, but I don't think it's the new design and I don't know where else to post it. I am not receiving instant email notifications of the threads to which I am subscribed. I'm sure it's some setting somewhere, but can't find it. Please help.

I've already checked that my notification setting is Instant Email.

[Andy Pope]

Have you checked your, or your companies, spam filters?

[blane245]

Ooooh Andy, that is a real possibility. I am using the bellsouth.net ISP for my email. Do you think they may be kicking this forum out?

[Andy Pope]

Could not say. Login to your account and check support pages. They may have details on the 'services' they provide to help users.

[blane245]

By golly. That was it! I switched email addresses and I'm getting messages now. Thanx!

[Domski]

After the initial shock I quite lick it!

Dom

[NBVC]

After the initial shock I quite lick it!

Dom

I hope you washed off the monitor screen first

[karuna85.k]

New Home page design looking good, but if u change the background design, it will also look very good /...

[Domski]

After the initial shock I quite lick it!

Dom

I hope you washed off the monitor screen first

I'm not sure what I must have been thinking about then, it's not even an excusable keyboard error!!!

[teylyn]

The fonts in the posts are now much better, although the Code font looks really small in Internet Explorer. See attached screenshots for a comparison between FF and IE.

The Excel Version information is crucial and should be re-instated ASAP. Unless we're interested in artificaially bumping up the post count in this forum, since every other thread will require a post along the lines of "Which version are you using" and a reply to clarify. I'm not sure this would be in our best interests, though.

[zbor]

I would like to add that NEW POSTS is great button
Don't know was there in last version (Or I just didn't use it).

But I would like to have (if other think it's a good idea) an button that would filter out: Advanced search -> Find all posts by user -> (user) so we can easily see last thing we did... I find it usefull for morning research (for those that use excel forum on day base but also for those that cames from time to time to see what's updated while they were gone)

[zbor]

On IE, except fact that iccon dissapear... It's hard to see what you read and what you didn't read... Everything's bold...

untitled.JPG

Edit: While when you hit New posts seems to be OK...

untitled2.JPG

[teylyn]

zbor,

Don't know was there in last version (Or I just didn't use it).

This used to be "Post Reply"

an button that would filter out: Advanced search -> Find all posts by user -> (user)

that's Search - Advanced Search - find all posts by user ... - choose to return individual posts or threads

It's hard to see what you read and what you didn't read... Everything's bold...

If you refresh the page, you will see visited threads are no longer bold.

[zbor]

I know you do that through search... I was wondering is there use to put button that will do all that (in one click) since I do that often (I don't know about other users... if it's just me I'll adopt )

2nd: nope.. bold even after refresh...

[teylyn]

... I think anything beyond cosmetic changes, i.e. pretty colors and icons, will probably take longer. The moderators have been asking for a re-structure of the forum for more than 18 months now ...

2nd: nope.. bold even after refresh...

What if you hit "New Posts" on the blue menu bar? - At least it's blue now, don't know what color it might have when you see it .... <duck>

[zbor]

What if you hit "New Posts" on the blue menu bar?

New Posts is OK.. See attachemnt's above

[teylyn]

When I refresh a regular forum view, read posts don't come up in bold again. But that's on FF ... will test in IE.
When I hit New Posts, only unread posts are bold. Again FF.

[teylyn]

zb, you're right.

for the record: In Internet Explorer, the regular forum view always shows all posts in bold, regardless whether they have been visited or not. The "New Posts" view shows only unvisited threads in bold.

In Firefox, visited threads are correctly shown in regular font, only unvisited threads are show in bold, in Forum views as well als "New Posts" view.

Irritating.

[MickG]

Hi, I'm really sorry to say this, but this format is worse than the previous one.
Personnaly I find the General Layout with all the Various Types of thread really annoying , it means I have to Select perhaps 3 or 4 Sub headings to see all the Types of Threads. This envolves endless unneccessary clicking on links and scrolling, and I now find to actually see the Thread titles and Details I need to scroll Right every time to access the individual details of the Thread Headings .
The Main Banner, is overwritten by a Text Box, the Links below are overwritten by the words "Welcome to the Excel Forum and the links are white on a light blue backgroud which make them difficult to read.
I think Generally Less is usually, More and in this case , More is Less.
I appreciate the great effort you go to for this forum, and I thank you for that.
I'm not sure if I should say this but "MrExceL" is far more User Frendly due to its simplicity, and this Forum has the added benefit of being able to attach files, which is a really useful tool.
I truly hope that this forum can eventually produce a Format that is worthy of all the Effort that so obviously goes in to it.
This forum, provides me will a great deal of pleasure and enjoyments and I would truly like to see it flourish
Yours sincerely MickG

[D_Rennie]

my 2cents worth.

most have aready been spoken on before.
1st impression BRIGHT, well white is always clean looking so pros for that.
forum post Forum Statistics utter usless at the moment and only serves to take from the viewing of the threads.

Microsoft Windows Operating System well this is a excel forum though ALL ASPECTS are a great addition though maby sub folder. the amount of crap in these threads is mindbolligling. and if this is the case why is programming limited to excel can we not program within vba (word) to interract with the windoze invrioment.

i see a lot of post that end up in the wrong place. probley due to the fact that the formular functions is a sub catogary of the vba programming. THEY should not be sub-catogrized like this.

other things like the user database there are thousands of users here that have joined over 12 months ago and not made a post Rid them.

i know the updates are on the GUI side of things and not some of the above/

Vaibhav i would shout you a beer and then some if we meet. so keep doing what you think is best and i will applaud you at the end of the day.

[teylyn]

@MickG

Personnaly I find the General Layout with all the Various Types of thread really annoying , it means I have to Select perhaps 3 or 4 Sub headings to see all the Types of Threads. This envolves endless unneccessary clicking on links and scrolling, and I now find to actually see the Thread titles and Details I need to scroll Right every time to access the individual details of the Thread Headings .

What do you mean by various types of thread? Or that you need to scroll right to see thread titles and details? Can you maybe snap a screenshot of what you see. It's not the same in every browser and screen resolution and that is exactly the issue.
From your next words I gather that your screen is not wide enough to allow the top menu to be in one line, so it gets a line break and mucks up the navigation. That's bad programming and we've already flagged these issues with Vaibhav. I think much of your need to scroll right is due to the white space underneath the less than useful forum statistics. Another thing that has annoyed several people before.

[randell.graybill]

I don't like the new design, looks unprofessional.

[teylyn]

i'm writing this from a smartphone, my lifeline to the forum if there is no real computer around -- that's dedication, I guess.

Before the skin change, I was able to access all vital forum functions on the smartphone browser, albeit somewhat inconveniently, since there did not seem to be a CSS for mobile devices and the page did not render conveniently. But at least it did render!

Now for the first time accessing the forum in the new skin, I must say that it is the epitome of cr*p!!!

I cannot navigate to my user cp or take a look at new posts or even click the home page, because all the links in the menu bar are white on white and there's no way of telling which link is which.

I use to be able to check my subscibed threads and send and read PMs from my phone. That is now virtually impossible.

Vaibhav, you may feel that you've landed a great coup by re-arranging a few colors on the forum, but all in all you have done considerably more harm than good.

We've lost an awful lot of previous functionality that was appreciated by both regular members and mods. The new 'design' has collected more negative comments than positive ones. Functional requirements that mods have been asking for for two years now are still being ignored. Instead we get green buttons instead of gray ones and in the same turn lose functionality (eg version info), cross browser usability, mobile device functionality ... and overall the whole design looks cheap and proves to be untested and unprofessional.

I, for one, feel very much discouraged to continue using this forum and will need some strong incentives to keep going.

in the last year I've grown very fond of the people on excelforum, but I don't think it will be too hard for this community to find a more suitable platform elsewhere.

This forum is carried by the volunteers who put in their time for free. Ignoring requests for changes that enhance the usability of the forum for members, regular contributors and moderators, and instead putting up some cheap cosmetic changes that prove to be more detrimental than beneficial, is a slap in the face for many individuals here.

There is no shortage of forums on the internet for both people with questions and people with answers. I fear that if this forum does not soon accommodate the sensible requests of the people who can provide the answers, then they will start to look for playing fields where they receive more respect and acknowledgement than here. The askers of questions will follow the experts.

This redesign should be an opportunity to improve forum features and functionality, to make this forum better and more attractive than the alternatives on the web.

Please listen to the feedback here and show that you care by implementing what is important for the users here.

Flash, bright, new colors won't make people visit here. Expert advice will. But the experts will only stick around if they feel it's worth their while.

Do you understand what I'm getting at?

Please acknowledge that you've seen this message by posting a brief reply. I 'd expect you to check this feedback thread regularly, so everyone will be anxious to see what your view is. And if you care about the future of Excelforum, please tell us all what you are planning to do to improve the forum's usability.

[contaminated]

Is it not possible to place # button, which adds code tages, in quick reply field?

[NBVC]

Is it not possible to place # button, which adds code tages, in quick reply field?

Yes, that would be nice.. I asked about that a while ago too...

[darkyam]

I'd like to see the attachment button in the quick reply field.

[Special-K]

Urgh! Horrible! I don't like it. Put it back the way it was or is there an option for me to select the "old" look?
Urgh! (I've said it twice now, I guess I really don't like it!)

[Simon Lloyd]

Is it not possible to place # button, which adds code tages, in quick reply field?

Yes, that would be nice.. I asked about that a while ago too...

I'd like to see the attachment button in the quick reply field.

Urgh! Horrible! I don't like it. Put it back the way it was or is there an option for me to select the "old" look?
Urgh! (I've said it twice now, I guess I really don't like it!)

They're all really simple fixes, if i had those requests at my forum it would be done in a blink of an eye - Vai, you really need to listen these people they are your bread and butter, without them the forum dies!

[zbor]

About design and colors... I think we all need few days to adopt to it (at least try) and then we'll have better view...

But about functionality - there shouldn't be discussion... There are some things writen here in this thread that must be done, some that should be done and some that might be done...

[broro183]

hi Vai,

I read this thread a few days ago & didn't notice any references to print-out readability but I think that it is important too. So, please read on for a quote of a new member's question...

...
Question: Why is it when I print this page, the macros under the heading "code" are printed in light grey color? Very hard to read. Any suggestion how to improve that?
Thanks.

Sourced from http://www.excelforum.com/excel-gene...ing-macro.html

Rob

[shg]

I think Elvis has left the bulding.

[DonkeyOte]

all suggestions: returned to sender...

[shg]

Address unknown ...

No such Sender,

No such Road.

[Simon Lloyd]

Address unknown ...

No such Sender,

No such Road.

It sounds like this thread has been abandoned just like the moderators forum threads for improvements on the structure and layout - wouldn't have happened in my day

[teylyn]

well, abandoned by the OP, at least .... OP's last forum activity three days ago ...
There's plenty of activity from the members. But, hey, who needs members in a forum, right?

[pike]

is Elvis dead

[shg]

Not if you really, really believe, pike.

[pike]

No, just kidding I know he lives
These are the only places he can go with out begin reconised
http://www.parkeselvisfestival.com.au/

[DonkeyOte]

isn't the guy in the middle Bill Murray ?

[pike]

no, that John Belushi he isnt dead either

[teylyn]

at last this thread is getting off the ground ....

[D_Rennie]

at last this thread is getting off the ground ....

Sure you dont mean getting buried underground.

[rwgrietveld]

After 7 pages of feedback I don't know if this is a dup but

Welcome, rwgrietveld. Private Messages: Unread 0, Total 38.
Displayed right top is annoyingly over my topics.
Can it be left of Search forum

Second point. I still dislike the Search. Result is little usefull links. It's even better to seach through Google with a site:excelforum.com specified and I do not have to wait 30 seconds when the result is unsatifying.

[Vaibhav]

Okay Guys..

Before moving on to the point, i was out of town for the last few days for some urgent work and hence you did not see any reverts from me.

To the members who think that we don't care about the board, I ll just say one thing, We are here to be the BIGGEST excel board in the world and its the members who will make this happen.

I have added another rule to the board so please make sure its taken care of.

Thanks to every one for the suggestions.
I have spent the last 2 hours to jot them all down.

Within the next 24 hours we will try and complete all the pending changes, for all the suggestions given and there would be an individual revert to each suggestion.

I need support of all the people here to make this board GROW, Together we will make it Happen.

Some people who are passing sarcastic comments trying to promote their sites should take a note of not repeating the same.

[protonLeah]

This is not about the new design itself but a question on vBulletin's datbase management functions:

Surely, there must be an option for expiring or locking posts/threads based on dates.

Recently, some new posters are resurrecting posts that are several years old. So I was thinking ....

[Simon Lloyd]

Okay Guys..

Before moving on to the point, i was out of town for the last few days for some urgent work and hence you did not see any reverts from me.

To the members who think that we don't care about the board, I ll just say one thing, We are here to be the BIGGEST excel board in the world and its the members who will make this happen.

I have added another rule to the board so please make sure its taken care of.

Thanks to every one for the suggestions.
I have spent the last 2 hours to jot them all down.

Within the next 24 hours we will try and complete all the pending changes, for all the suggestions given and there would be an individual revert to each suggestion.

I need support of all the people here to make this board GROW, Together we will make it Happen.

Some people who are passing sarcastic comments trying to promote their sites should take a note of not repeating the same.

All, I guess VAi means me as he has wiped my signature. To Vai the comments wern't sarcastic they were designed to prompt you in to action, if thats a threat go ahead and ban me, it actually shows the level with which you are currently treating your members, you forget where this board came from and how it grew....yes painful as it sounds it was growing without you, if you truly want this board to be the biggest then listen, evaluate, feedback and act promptly.

As for promoting my site everyone here knows who i am and where i am, a quick google of my name will lead them to my site, wiping signatures is petty and immature, but hey it's your board and you will do with it as you will

[romperstomper]

We are here to be the BIGGEST excel board in the world and its the members who will make this happen.

Out of curiosity, how do you define 'BIGGEST'? Number of users, number of posts, other?

Also, surely the aim should be to be the best, rather than biggest?

[darkyam]

Well, I'm going to choose to believe (or at least choose to hope) these will get read at some point, so I'm going to offer another suggestion anyway: if I click on a post of mine that has feedback, it tells me something like, "Your reputation on this post is somewhat positive," but the words "this post" are a link that does nothing but opens up another tab with the exact same post I was just looking at. Can we please get rid of this? I don't see the point in this link at all.

[Simon Lloyd]

Not if you really, really believe, pike.

No, just kidding I know he lives
These are the only places he can go with out begin reconised
http://www.parkeselvisfestival.com.au/

isn't the guy in the middle Bill Murray ?

no, that John Belushi he isnt dead either

Apparently Vai and his team are addressing these issues in the next forum update

Well, I'm going to choose to believe (or at least choose to hope) these will get read at some point, so I'm going to offer another suggestion anyway: if I click on a post of mine that has feedback, it tells me something like, "Your reputation on this post is somewhat positive," but the words "this post" are a link that does nothing but opens up another tab with the exact same post I was just looking at. Can we please get rid of this? I don't see the point in this link at all.

Unfortunately he will not be able to perform the doable only the inpossible

[yawnzzzz]

First, just let me say that this forum is the only one I refer to for questions on VBA. I've written basically full blown programs in Excel, and the people on this board have rarely left me with a question unanswered. Actually, the only question I believe we never solved was one that was a Microsoft bug.

Anyway, this is the first time I've logged on since the format change. The old format was easier for me to read. I think the best step forward would be to put borders around as much as possible.

[pike]

Morning Vaibhav
Looking forward to the next 24hours

[geoB]

Nice look, but I'm having a good deal of trouble with the gray text on white background while reading posts. Insufficient contrast for these aging eyebones.

george

[pike]

sometimes its just has to be said


dejavue

[broro183]

Vai,

Like Pike (& others) I am looking forward to the next 24 hours and sometimes things do "just have to be said". Keep us informed (ie I will be away) & we are more likely to be understanding and also to keep the thread on track.

"Some people" are very well respected by the longer serving members of this Forum & Simon (for one) has never* aggressively promoted his forum over ExcelForum as can be seen in the wording of his previous signature ("in the unlikely event..."). I disagree with a dictorial approach to this new rule but I can understand its legimitacy to prevent spam. So, if this new rule (number 13) is to be enforced I hope it is done consistently across all members AND that the change is clearly communicated to all existing users. I say, "clearly communicated" because it took me too long to find the Rules. Many users will not go looking for Rules & the below 3 clicks definitely involved looking.
click 1) FAQ link
click 2) Where are the Rules link
click 3) Rules are here link

If my memory serves me correctly, I could always get to the Rules directly from the header on every page before the recent format changes. Can this please be changed back to have the Rules link re-displayed in the headers?

*"never" may be too strong a word, but I haven't seen him do so, and I've been a member since 2006, a guest before that & have read a lot more posts than I have made.

I respect your aim to make the Forum the biggest in the world but suggest you read the below link which discusses some users opinions on the "downfall" of another excel forum:http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...18-ozgrid.html

Yours sincerely
Rob

[Simon Lloyd]

Vai,

Like Pike (& others) I am looking forward to the next 24 hours and sometimes things do "just have to be said". Keep us informed (ie I will be away) & we are more likely to be understanding and also to keep the thread on track.

"Some people" are very well respected by the longer serving members of this Forum & Simon (for one) has never* aggressively promoted his forum over ExcelForum as can be seen in the wording of his previous signature ("in the unlikely event..."). I disagree with a dictorial approach to this new rule but I can understand its legimitacy to prevent spam. So, if this new rule (number 13) is to be enforced I hope it is done consistently across all members AND that the change is clearly communicated to all existing users. I say, "clearly communicated" because it took me too long to find the Rules. Many users will not go looking for Rules & the below 3 clicks definitely involved looking.
click 1) FAQ link
click 2) Where are the Rules link
click 3) Rules are here link

If my memory serves me correctly, I could always get to the Rules directly from the header on every page before the recent format changes. Can this please be changed back to have the Rules link re-displayed in the headers?

*"never" may be too strong a word, but I haven't seen him do so, and I've been a member since 2006, a guest before that & have read a lot more posts than I have made.

I respect your aim to make the Forum the biggest in the world but suggest you read the below link which discusses some users opinions on the "downfall" of another excel forum:http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...18-ozgrid.html

Yours sincerely
Rob

Errrm...............i don't know what to say?, thanks very much for the support, i do hope you all get your wants and wishes!

[Domski]

13. Cross promotion/Links of any competitor forums to www.excelforum.com in signature of any member are NOT allowed.

To me this just seems extremely petty. You seem to recognise that it's the members that will make this forum a good one but if you alienate your senior/experienced members by starting to implement stupid rules it will soon go downhill.

Do you expect people to stop referencing threads in other forums in their answers in case someone might stumble across a competitor and think it might have something to offer?

The main reason I joined here is because it was a bit bored of just hanging around what is without a doubt the best Excel forum going (Can you guess which one?). I don't have as much to offer as Simon but am already starting to feel the politics here are putting me off stopping around much longer.

I hope things improve.

Dom

PS Implementing major changes, asking for feedback and then disappearing off the radar for days isn't the best idea IMHO

[broro183]

hi all

Vai,
I apologise if you consider my (& other posts) as rants and wish you all the best for working on the changes. We do care too & that's why we are still here & speaking up.
GOOD LUCK :-)

...
I disagree with a dictorial approach to this new rule but I can understand its legimitacy to prevent spam. So, if this new rule (number 13) is to be enforced I hope it is done consistently across all members AND that the change is clearly communicated to all existing users.
...

Here's some further clarification of why I disagree:
I'm here (or at other sites) to help people. To help people get solutions to their specific problems AND more importantly to help people learn so they in turn become helpers (extrapolate my signature). With that in mind, I'll continue to provide links as I see fit, until informed otherwise through clear communication.

Errrm...............i don't know what to say?

No need to say anything, I'm trying to remain as objective as possible but had to voice my feelings. I will now go back to work having broken my personal rule of never posting during work time (unless asking for a solution) for the first time ever!



Yours sincerely
Rob

[martindwilson]

The Forum Rules can be found at the top of each forum

where's that exactly,i cant see it
and as for rule#13
competitor? when did this become a competition? and if it is ,competing for what?

[teylyn]

Nobody should feel the need to apologize for voicing their opinion if they are explicitly being asked for feedback.

Re: "downfall"

I respect your aim to make the Forum the biggest in the world but suggest you read the below link which discusses some users opinions on the "downfall" of another excel forum:http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...18-ozgrid.html

See attached picture of the Alexa statistics. Excelforum is the blue line. The "fallen" forum is the red line. So much for "dead". But in order to keep these kinds of statistics with hardly any active members, the forum must have been pretty darn busy in its heyday.

Busier than Excelforum.

So, Vai, with your goal in mind, it would be interesting to see what your strategy is.

[royUK]

That Forum was extremely busy, and I know because at times I was the only one moderating to any extent- DH was away & Jack had a long period of illness

[romperstomper]

In that case, EE wins hands-down!

[NBVC]

Vai,

Read back some of the posts in the Moderator Forums when Simon was our Administrator... You will see that he was a man of action and of his word. We never had to remind him constantly of changes requested or promises made. When we asked for something he always made it a point of obliging right away. That is what kept us fueled to want to make this the site what it is today. He is the one that "created" the great site that it is now. When I first came on board here.. it was not as fast paced as it had become once Simon took over administrating, it was also not as organised... a bunch of us became moderators under his watch and he has made us "love" this site. I am sure if you look back at the stats you will see where the line shoots upwards at a faster rate... you should see it was while under his administration. Ever since he left that role, we have been asking for improvements and nothing had been done to our satisfaction (especially reorganization of the forum index). Many of us felt frustrated and were tempted to leave. I know may stay here is solely for the love of Excel and the friendship I have accumulated here with other users. The other successful boards don't have the same feeling of respect and friendship as this one does (at least not that I sense).... but surely, you would understand that we are all here for one goal and that is to make it a site not to be ignored.

I also am fortunate enough to be a moderator at Simon's site, along with a few others moderators from here. He is doing a great job of establishing an excellent website and knowledgebase...And we do wish Simon all the best for a successful site.... not necessarily for a competitive site, but for an alternative place for people around the world to gain valuable knowledge and friendship from the best Excelers out there!

[royUK]

I don't think there is any competition between Excel Forums, it's not as if they charge for the advice (except one).May advisers post at numerous forums, some OPs ask their questions on numerous sites

[martindwilson]

for anyone interesred current estimated site worth
www.excelforum.com $871,544.00
www.ozgrid.com $650,749.00
www.mrexcel.com $614.906.00
www.andypope.info $77,735.00
www.contextures.com $96,252.00
www.dailydoseofexcel.com $81.703.00
excelusergroup.org $53,627.00
www.exceltip.com $799,661.00
www.thecodecage.com $156,813.00
www.excel-it.com $19,571.00

[Simon Lloyd]

Vai,

Read back some of the posts in the Moderator Forums when Simon was our Administrator... You will see that he was a man of action and of his word. We never had to remind him constantly of changes requested or promises made. When we asked for something he always made it a point of obliging right away. That is what kept us fueled to want to make this the site what it is today. He is the one that "created" the great site that it is now. When I first came on board here.. it was not as fast paced as it had become once Simon took over administrating, it was also not as organised... a bunch of us became moderators under his watch and he has made us "love" this site. I am sure if you look back at the stats you will see where the line shoots upwards at a faster rate... you should see it was while under his administration. Ever since he left that role, we have been asking for improvements and nothing had been done to our satisfaction (especially reorganization of the forum index). Many of us felt frustrated and were tempted to leave. I know may stay here is solely for the love of Excel and the friendship I have accumulated here with other users. The other successful boards don't have the same feeling of respect and friendship as this one does (at least not that I sense).... but surely, you would understand that we are all here for one goal and that is to make it a site not to be ignored.

I also am fortunate enough to be a moderator at Simon's site, along with a few others moderators from here. He is doing a great job of establishing an excellent website and knowledgebase...And we do wish Simon all the best for a successful site.... not necessarily for a competitive site, but for an alternative place for people around the world to gain valuable knowledge and friendship from the best Excelers out there!

Vittorio, heart felt and appreciated, i understand how you feel and so wil many others, i know that i may have taken this thread slightly at a tangent and it's not about me or my site (it never was and never has been!) but about the folk that come in to our care when seeking help, advice and knowledge - keep them happy and they will keep coming back!

BTW you guys (the mods) helped immensley with your willingness to co-ordinate and moderate for free taking on the changing demands and requests from me and the OP's.

I don't think there is any competition between Excel Forums, it's not as if they charge for the advice (except one).May advisers post at numerous forums, some OPs ask their questions on numerous sites

Your right, whilst we frown on cross posting if not performed right we are happy just to know that someone has their solution, many a time somone has asked a question here, not had an answer as quick as they like, got it elsewhere and posted the solution back here - why?, because they love(d) the site.

for anyone interesred current estimated site worth
www.excelforum.com $871,544.00
www.ozgrid.com $650,749.00
www.mrexcel.com $614.906.00
www.andypope.info $77,735.00
www.contextures.com $96,252.00
www.dailydoseofexcel.com $81.703.00
excelusergroup.org $53,627.00
www.exceltip.com $799,661.00
www.thecodecage.com $156,813.00
www.excel-it.com $19,571.00

Jeeeeez! enough Kudos now i'm selling mine, a bargain at $156,000.00 !

[NBVC]

for anyone interesred current estimated site worth
www.excelforum.com $871,544.00
www.ozgrid.com $650,749.00
www.mrexcel.com $614.906.00
www.andypope.info $77,735.00
www.contextures.com $96,252.00
www.dailydoseofexcel.com $81.703.00
excelusergroup.org $53,627.00
www.exceltip.com $799,661.00
www.thecodecage.com $156,813.00
www.excel-it.com $19,571.00

Where do you get that data?

[martindwilson]

in my day job i make money estimating domains and seeing if they are worth buying/investing in.
i made my first million in 2006 and now am looking to retire. i have some dedicated staff who do nothing but analyse revenue streams ,hits per site ect then we get some ads in there asap and sit back and watch the money come in.
then i woke up
nope i just googled a website worth calculator
but having just run ccleaner i cant remember or find which one!
but i just did another one and the values are different e.g. in
http://www.how-much-is-my-website-worth.info/
excelforum is
$444,119

[royUK]

I think the values differ completely depending on the web site used

[NBVC]

Makes you wonder where/how they get the numbers and who is most accurate...

[darkyam]

I think they just use Excel. =Randbetween(1,100000000)

[shg]

Could we get the font size in code boxes back where it was, please?

[martindwilson]

@ Vaibhav
nice one mate
things are getting better

[D_Rennie]

i did mean to was good to see the changes being made in a good way

[teylyn]

Could we get the font size in code boxes back where it was, please?

and also back to a monospace font like Courier New or Lucida Console.
Code in proportional font is hard to read.

[shg]

Amen to that; the font was so small I hadn't noticed it was proportional.

[Vaibhav]

After the Board design and Dev related posts here are my answers to the other issues which have come up :

All, I guess VAi means me as he has wiped my signature. To Vai the comments wern't sarcastic they were designed to prompt you in to action, if thats a threat go ahead and ban me, it actually shows the level with which you are currently treating your members, you forget where this board came from and how it grew....yes painful as it sounds it was growing without you, if you truly want this board to be the biggest then listen, evaluate, feedback and act promptly.

Simon, The rule is a general rule and it applies to Every one who is a member of the forum. May be that it is just a co-incidence that you got hit because i saw your "old" sig which was against the new rule and it had to be taken off.

Also i have a lot of respect for you because of the way you have helped the this board to grow, why will i want to ban you ? May be you have taken it personal but honestly it was not meant to be personal at all.

Vai,


"Some people" are very well respected by the longer serving members of this Forum & Simon (for one) has never* aggressively promoted his forum over ExcelForum as can be seen in the wording of his previous signature ("in the unlikely event..."). I disagree with a dictorial approach to this new rule but I can understand its legimitacy to prevent spam. So, if this new rule (number 13) is to be enforced I hope it is done consistently across all members AND that the change is clearly communicated to all existing users. I say, "clearly communicated" because it took me too long to find the Rules. Many users will not go looking for Rules & the below 3 clicks definitely involved looking.
click 1) FAQ link
click 2) Where are the Rules link
click 3) Rules are here link

If my memory serves me correctly, I could always get to the Rules directly from the header on every page before the recent format changes. Can this please be changed back to have the Rules link re-displayed in the headers?

*"never" may be too strong a word, but I haven't seen him do so, and I've been a member since 2006, a guest before that & have read a lot more posts than I have made.

I respect your aim to make the Forum the biggest in the world but suggest you read the below link which discusses some users opinions on the "downfall" of another excel forum:http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...18-ozgrid.html

Yours sincerely
Rob

Rob, Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate every bit of it. I respect every member of the board but if we have to apply rules which are for the benefit of the board some members might get offended but i am sure its going to be good for the long run.
And i will get the rules button added to the top menu bar of the board.

To me this just seems extremely petty. You seem to recognise that it's the members that will make this forum a good one but if you alienate your senior/experienced members by starting to implement stupid rules it will soon go downhill.

Do you expect people to stop referencing threads in other forums in their answers in case someone might stumble across a competitor and think it might have something to offer?

The main reason I joined here is because it was a bit bored of just hanging around what is without a doubt the best Excel forum going (Can you guess which one?). I don't have as much to offer as Simon but am already starting to feel the politics here are putting me off stopping around much longer.

I hope things improve.

Dom

PS Implementing major changes, asking for feedback and then disappearing off the radar for days isn't the best idea IMHO

Domsi, With due respect can i ask why does this rule look stupid ? Will you allow banner of your competitor inside your shop ?
Secondly i did not say no to cross referencing, and the rule only applies to the signatures which are generic.

Also I already apologized for the absence but work was still on behind the scenes. I own an IM company with 75 people and offices in 3 countries, and believe me life can get so busy at times that you really cant help it but still at 7 am in the night or rather morning after being up whole night i am replying to the feedback so i guess you should give me the benefit of doubt please for the last time

hi all

Vai,
I apologise if you consider my (& other posts) as rants and wish you all the best for working on the changes. We do care too & that's why we are still here & speaking up.
GOOD LUCK :-)



Here's some further clarification of why I disagree:
I'm here (or at other sites) to help people. To help people get solutions to their specific problems AND more importantly to help people learn so they in turn become helpers (extrapolate my signature). With that in mind, I'll continue to provide links as I see fit, until informed otherwise through clear communication.


No need to say anything, I'm trying to remain as objective as possible but had to voice my feelings. I will now go back to work having broken my personal rule of never posting during work time (unless asking for a solution) for the first time ever!



Yours sincerely
Rob

First of all Rob, no apologies please, its a free world and every one is free to give their opinions.
Any links as long as they are not to a competitor forum/community should be fine, will continue the discussion in the mods forum on this.

where's that exactly,i cant see it
and as for rule#13
competitor? when did this become a competition? and if it is ,competing for what?

Will discus it at length @ mods forum.

Re: "downfall"

See attached picture of the Alexa statistics. Excelforum is the blue line. The "fallen" forum is the red line. So much for "dead". But in order to keep these kinds of statistics with hardly any active members, the forum must have been pretty darn busy in its heyday.

Busier than Excelforum.

So, Vai, with your goal in mind, it would be interesting to see what your strategy is.

Teylyn, nice to see the alexa graph comparison between the two sites but i think you missed this http://yfrog.com/0fpicture3kgp
Look at the speed by which excelforum is growing... almost going to be an Exponential graph
Now make a guess who is gonna be at the top if things are done right ?

Out of curiosity, how do you define 'BIGGEST'? Number of users, number of posts, other?

Also, surely the aim should be to be the best, rather than biggest?

Biggest in terms of number of active users and number of total users visiting the board.

Biggest or Best ? I ll prefer both, Infact its going to be difficult to be biggest if we are not the best .

'BIGGEST' - requires most screen space to see useful information :P

This is very debatable, look at the homepage of yahoo.com, but again on excelforum we will make sure that the final decision is of the members of the forum.

Vai,

Read back some of the posts in the Moderator Forums when Simon was our Administrator... You will see that he was a man of action and of his word. We never had to remind him constantly of changes requested or promises made. When we asked for something he always made it a point of obliging right away. That is what kept us fueled to want to make this the site what it is today. He is the one that "created" the great site that it is now. When I first came on board here.. it was not as fast paced as it had become once Simon took over administrating, it was also not as organised... a bunch of us became moderators under his watch and he has made us "love" this site. I am sure if you look back at the stats you will see where the line shoots upwards at a faster rate... you should see it was while under his administration. Ever since he left that role, we have been asking for improvements and nothing had been done to our satisfaction (especially reorganization of the forum index). Many of us felt frustrated and were tempted to leave. I know may stay here is solely for the love of Excel and the friendship I have accumulated here with other users. The other successful boards don't have the same feeling of respect and friendship as this one does (at least not that I sense).... but surely, you would understand that we are all here for one goal and that is to make it a site not to be ignored.

NBVC, I know how motivatedly simon helped in growth of this board along with you and all the other members of the board and i don't want to take any credit away from all the hard work he and every one else has put into this board.
Excel forum belongs to ALL the people who are a member of the forum, all those who come here on a daily basis and enjoy saying here. I am just trying to make every ones journey easy and take work towards my Vision.

[Simon Lloyd]

After the Board design and Dev related posts here are my answers to the other issues which have come up :

Simon, The rule is a general rule and it applies to Every one who is a member of the forum. May be that it is just a co-incidence that you got hit because i saw your "old" sig which was against the new rule and it had to be taken off.

Also i have a lot of respect for you because of the way you have helped the this board to grow, why will i want to ban you ? May be you have taken it personal but honestly it was not meant to be personal at all.

I appreciate you coming back on that point....are you saying this is an automated process?, if it is it's faulty as it's not uniformed and not wide spread, if it was automated for links to forums (can't imagine the queries to database and processing power that would consume!) then why would it delete a whole signature instead of just the link?

If it was manual deletion then you are going to upset a whole lot of people here MODS included!

Sorry Vai but thats just unbelievable!

[Domski]

After the Board design and Dev related posts here are my answers to the other issues which have come up :

Domsi, With due respect can i ask why does this rule look stupid ? Will you allow banner of your competitor inside your shop ?
Secondly i did not say no to cross referencing, and the rule only applies to the signatures which are generic.

Also I already apologized for the absence but work was still on behind the scenes. I own an IM company with 75 people and offices in 3 countries, and believe me life can get so busy at times that you really cant help it but still at 7 am in the night or rather morning after being up whole night i am replying to the feedback so i guess you should give me the benefit of doubt please for the last time

Not many shops rely on volunteers to come in and staff them though do they? The reputation points are a nice way of recognising those that contribute to the forum but I think you need to cut those who make it what it is some slack. I just can't help but feel your shooting yourself in the foot here with the dreaded Rule 13. Maybe we could just skip it and move straight on to Rule 14 without it's name ever being mentioned again.

Also only my girlfriend gets to call me Domsi

Dom

[broro183]

Vai,

I agree with StephenR, when he says that doing a cosmetic & then a functional overhaul does seem to be a strange order.

Stephen,
On the other hand, being relatively new to London/UK, I laugh, because I can actually imagine some "chav's" still attempting to apply the makeup!

...
To the members who think that we don't care about the board, I ll just say one thing, We are here to be the BIGGEST excel board in the world and its the members who will make this happen.

...Now make a guess who is gonna be at the top if things are done right ?

...Excel forum belongs to ALL the people who are a member of the forum, all those who come here on a daily basis and enjoy saying here. I am just trying to make every ones journey easy and take work towards my Vision.

...
So, Vai, with your goal in mind, it would be interesting to see what your strategy is.

Vai,
As one of the passengers on this train*, it would be nice to enjoy this journey without a blindfold. Plus, it would be comforting, to say the least, to know that the Conductors aren't blindfolded too. So I'll go a bit further than "interesting" & ask directly:

What is your strategy for achieving the goal/vision?
Will this be published (or even better, discussed & published)?
If not published for everyone, at least for/with the Moderators?
I can respect aspects of commercial sensitivity etc etc, but even blinkers with restricted vision are better than a blindfold.

* okay, so analogies aren't a strong point of mine!
The train may not have been the best option, in case it turns into a run-away, never goin' back... when it seems like we should be getting somewhere. Stephen's horse was a better analogy, but I couldn't fit the general "us" & all the Conductors (Mod's) on board!


Rob

[StephenR]

Rob: welcome to the Smoke. Perhaps we need a big red bus.

[teylyn]

well, it wasn't proportional yesterday. At least not always and not in all browsers and not even in all code boxes in one thread when using IE7.

[NBVC]

Vai,
Thank you for the feedback... I hope you do understand that these changes have been a long-time coming and you could understand the frustration in all of us, when promises are made and are then abandoned without reason.... I hope that this time we can be made proud to be members of this board.


Are you able to address what is going to be happening with the Forum Index and any restructuring?

[shg]

I own an IM company with 75 people and offices in 3 countries, ...

That's wonderful. Perhaps you could hire an admin for the forum.

[broro183]

hi Vai,

Somewhere in the depths of this thread there is reference to the "Closed" marker on locked/Closed threads & how it needs to be made more prominent. It looks like this has been done, however I think it could be done better (see http://www.excelforum.com/excel-2007...-function.html for an example).

The use of the white cross on a red background is now commonly symbolically associated with the ability to close something (eg an application) whereas I believe the marker is only meant to be informative not a button per se. This is partially overcome by the fact that the text states "Closed" (ie past tense/already done" but it is still not intuitive.
The New threads view still uses the padlock which I believe (perhaps from personal experience) is more intuitive. Could the padlock symbol be reapplied within threads?
Also, I don't know if the old marker was clickable (I never tried b/c it didn't look like a button), but by making it clear & intuitive, the need (?) for a meaningless link stating "Sorry! This thread is closed!" is eliminated.

Rob

[teylyn]

Rob, I agree with your points on the padlock symbology vs the cross.

Just some clarification: The Closed marker has always been (and still is) a button, in fact it is the "New Post" button with restricted access. Whether or not you see the "This thread is closed" message depends on the user's access level, i.e. moderators can still use the button to post into a closed thread.

As has been stated before, the forum functionality has not changed one bit with the new skin. It's only the way things look now that's different, they still work the same as before, whether that's good or bad.

[Vaibhav]

Vai,
Are you able to address what is going to be happening with the Forum Index and any restructuring?

NBVC, There would be a complete restrcturing for the board but only once we are done with the cosmetic makeover, along with that there would be some nice technological additions as well.

That's wonderful. Perhaps you could hire an admin for the forum.

The members here are more passionate about excel than any outside admin can be, already tried it but didn't work out.

I appreciate you coming back on that point....are you saying this is an automated process?, if it is it's faulty as it's not uniformed and not wide spread, if it was automated for links to forums (can't imagine the queries to database and processing power that would consume!) then why would it delete a whole signature instead of just the link?

If it was manual deletion then you are going to upset a whole lot of people here MODS included!

Sorry Vai but thats just unbelievable!

I Never said it was automated, a new rule was made and implemented. Lets stick to the topic here and if you want to discus further please catch me on IM or PM.

Not many shops rely on volunteers to come in and staff them though do they? The reputation points are a nice way of recognising those that contribute to the forum but I think you need to cut those who make it what it is some slack. I just can't help but feel your shooting yourself in the foot here with the dreaded Rule 13. Maybe we could just skip it and move straight on to Rule 14 without it's name ever being mentioned again.

Also only my girlfriend gets to call me Domsi

Dom

Haha dom I am definitely straight :p

I am a very active member of a lot of webmaster communities and this is a common rule across most of them and i dont see the reason why we should make this an issue

hi Vai,

Somewhere in the depths of this thread there is reference to the "Closed" marker on locked/Closed threads & how it needs to be made more prominent. It looks like this has been done, however I think it could be done better (see http://www.excelforum.com/excel-2007...-function.html for an example).

The use of the white cross on a red background is now commonly symbolically associated with the ability to close something (eg an application) whereas I believe the marker is only meant to be informative not a button per se. This is partially overcome by the fact that the text states "Closed" (ie past tense/already done" but it is still not intuitive.
The New threads view still uses the padlock which I believe (perhaps from personal experience) is more intuitive. Could the padlock symbol be reapplied within threads?
Also, I don't know if the old marker was clickable (I never tried b/c it didn't look like a button), but by making it clear & intuitive, the need (?) for a meaningless link stating "Sorry! This thread is closed!" is eliminated.

Rob

Thanks Rob for the suggestion, As teylyn explained there have been no changes done in the core working of the board but still i agree with you point about the closed button and will get it implemented

[Simon Lloyd]

I Never said it was automated, a new rule was made and implemented. Lets stick to the topic here and if you want to discus further please catch me on IM or PM......................................

........I am a very active member of a lot of webmaster communities and this is a common rule across most of them and i dont see the reason why we should make this an issue

Vai, ALL the rules here (except 13) were discussed and agreed by the moderators, i feel i need to discuss it not because i've lost my signature, it's of no consequence, but because it affects all the members, it's a little something they can have for having the goodness to visit your forum and help you reach whatever goal you have in mind, as for IM or PM that's not an option, it affects everyone and should be kept a public discussion, if you want to start another thread as such i would be happy to participate there.

Where you say to Rob, it's a common rule we shouldn't make an issue of it, you clearly made an issue of it in this very thread, i'm sure i don't need to repeat it verbatim, it is a real issue for many of your 145,000+ members.

[broro183]

...Just some clarification: The Closed marker has always been (and still is) a button, in fact it is the "New Post" button with restricted access. Whether or not you see the "This thread is closed" message depends on the user's access level, i.e. moderators can still use the button to post into a closed thread...

Ahhhh, that makes sense, hidden functionality for the whizzes :-)
Just being nosy now... are there any "easter egg" secrets which aren't locked down?

Rob

[Simon Lloyd]

Ahhhh, that makes sense, hidden functionality for the whizzes :-)
Just being nosy now... are there any "easter egg" secrets which aren't locked down?

Rob

Not really an easter egg as such but the easiest way to copy code from a code box (or at least it used to be) is to place your mouse just to the left of the box hold Ctrl and left click, then the whole lot of code is highlighted for copying!

To open ANY link in the forum in a new window simply hold down Ctrl (see the pattern developing?) and left click!

[darkyam]

Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, enter doesn't do anything. So disappointed.

[DonkeyOte]

Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, enter doesn't do anything. So disappointed.

LOL! Are you sure ? have you checked your rep points - you may have got a secret power up ...

[darkyam]

LOL! Are you sure ? have you checked your rep points - you may have got a secret power up ...

Still waiting for my secret power up, DO. I was hoping for a green 1UP mushroom or a flower that let me shoot bouncing balls of fire from my hands, but I'll settle for some rep points.

[Simon Lloyd]

Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, b, a, enter doesn't do anything. So disappointed.

very funny now put my screen back!!!!!!!

[darkyam]

very funny now put my screen back!!!!!!!

Yes, sir! Wouldn't want to make the hulk angry.

[ConneXionLost]

Hi Vaibhav,

On the navigation menu bar, when the cursor hovers over a menu "box", the text changes colour as part of the hover action, but the link doesn't become available until the cursor hovers over the box lettering.

With the initial box text colour change, a user gets the impression that it is possible to click to the link, however nothing happens. This is a little frustrating. Would it be possible to allow the link to become active as part of the initial box hover?

Cheers,

[zbor]

I suggest that 5 CP blocks are substituted with a star

star.JPG

[royUK]

The main toolbar (the dark blue one) could do with a button to link to the Forum Rules

[Simon Lloyd]

The main toolbar (the dark blue one) could do with a button to link to the Forum Rules

Has been asked for alot!

[Simon Lloyd]

You come across a post that has last "edited by" are you curious?, well be curious no more click the name....aha! an easter egg!

[martindwilson]

competitor? when did this become a competition? and if it is ,competing for what?

reponse

Will discus it at length @ mods forum

ok mods spill the beans!

[teylyn]

Will discus it at length @ mods forum

ok mods spill the beans!

note the future tense. the future is not here yet.

[martindwilson]

well its always tomorrow first where you are!

[broro183]

It's all good
One little question = a lot of chuckles, thanks all

R

[darkyam]

I think it's good to have a log out link, but it's a little hard to read with the white font. Also, I think it might look a little cleaner on the right side of the bar or, perhaps better still, in that little box at the top that tells us how many messages we have.

[teylyn]

darkyam, does your screen resolution result in a two-line menu bar? My screen is wide enough to show all menu items in one row and Logout is the last item on the right, but when I resize the window, the menu bar breaks into two lines and the lower one looks bad because it's on a light blue background instead of the darker blue of the top line.

[zbor]

darkyam, does your screen resolution result in a two-line menu bar? My screen is wide enough to show all menu items in one row and Logout is the last item on the right, but when I resize the window, the menu bar breaks into two lines and the lower one looks bad because it's on a light blue background instead of the darker blue of the top line.

Affirmative.

Bar breaks into 2, 3 or more (depending on how you squeeze your window) in all possible browsers in all possible universes.

untitled.JPG

[Simon Lloyd]

That is a problem with css being fixed width

[teylyn]

Vai, whoever wrote the css for this skin should be fired!
I think I said it before, if you paid money for the skin, claim it back.

[darkyam]

Teylyn, yep, that was the problem. Widening the screen put it back in the top menu. Don't really like the logic of it, though. I'd rather have it go off screen or have the dark blue bar become two lines.

[darkyam]

If we're adding new rules, can we put in one against quoting entire threads unless every line of the thread is relevant to the response? There seems to be a pandemic of this lately. And now that shg's not moderating and doling out infractions to 95-year-old ladies, I can only see it getting worse.

[royUK]

If we're adding new rules, can we put in one against quoting entire threads unless every line of the thread is relevant to the response? There seems to be a pandemic of this lately. And now that shg's not moderating and doling out infractions to 95-year-old ladies, I can only see it getting worse.

I don't think that a Rule is necessary for this,it's enough work enforcing Titles,Code tags etc. Best way to deal with it is to not answer posts that do this

[teylyn]

Towards the bottom of the forum rules post, among the tips on how to get your questions answered, there's

When responding to a post and including a quote please try to limit the content of the quote to the relevant lines.

... and I'm already deleting as many quotes as I can find.

[darkyam]

Thanks, Teylyn. I saw that already. It just doesn't seem to be read much lately by new posters. Making it a rule might make it easier to enforce than having it as a suggestion.

[teylyn]

Vai, the code font issue is still not sorted. Apart from the fact that it is still proportional (in IE, FF and Safari), there is also a difference in size (in FF), even within the same thread. For example in this thread, http://www.excelforum.com/excel-gene...om-1-cell.html
the first code box has much smaller font than the second code box when viewed with Firefox. If you don't have FF, here's a screenshot.

[shg]

There seems to be an attention span issue. Apparently The Empire beckons.

[teylyn]

yep. looks like this forum is in some kind of TokenRing network WRT admin attendance.

[martindwilson]

Re: Feedback : New design for the Board

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkyam
If we're adding new rules, can we put in one against quoting entire threads unless every line of the thread is relevant to the response? There seems to be a pandemic of this lately. And now that shg's not moderating and doling out infractions to 95-year-old ladies, I can only see it getting worse.

I don't think that a Rule is necessary for this,it's enough work enforcing Titles,Code tags etc. Best way to deal with it is to not answer posts that do this

i agree lol

[zbor]

I deal with it easily: I read until I get tired then just write: Please attach example workbook

[royUK]

I deal with it easily: I read until I get tired then just write: Please attach example workbook

That applies to posts where the OP writes a novel to explain the problem as well

[StephenR]

Vaibhav: I appreciate your diligence, even if it is a bit sporadic, in answering questions raised here. I was struck by your comment

There would be a complete restrcturing for the board but only once we are done with the cosmetic makeover.

because that seems to me to be a strange order in which to do things. Why not restructure and then do the cosmetics? If a woman has her lips botoxed she doesn't put her lipstick on before going in the operating theatre. Anyway, the horse has bolted I suppose.

Will you allow banner of your competitor inside your shop

I don't think this analogy quite works because this is not a commercial enterprise. At least, as far as I am aware, no-one here is paid for their contributions. If the rest of you are, I'm very disappointed and I want in. It might just keep me in weekly penny chews.

[Simon Lloyd]

....... it's a little something they can have for having the goodness to visit your forum and help you reach whatever goal you have in mind,......

.....I don't think this analogy quite works because this is not a commercial enterprise. At least, as far as I am aware, no-one here is paid for their contributions. If the rest of you are, I'm very disappointed and I want in. It might just keep me in weekly penny chews.

My sentiments too, because the members here add value to the site but get no remuneration it's a token they expect and enjoy

[Richard Buttrey]

It might just keep me in weekly penny chews.

...they were halfpenny chews in my day. That's inflation for you I suppose.

[martindwilson]

they were halfpenny chews in my day. That's inflation for you I suppose

err four for a penny me,that's a farthing each!
doesn't it make you depressed that when you have to put Y.O.B in an online dropdown you have to scroll down to the end!

[Richard Buttrey]

.....doesn't it make you depressed that when you have to put Y.O.B in an online dropdown you have to scroll down to the end!

lol

Yes I have that T shirt too.

[NSTurk725]

I love the new design. Blue and white is always easy on the eyes. Good work guys. Great forum. This place has helped me out so much.

[NBVC]

Probably mentioned already...If so, then this is an emphasis post.

Moderator listed in the Currently Active Users used to be bolded.. and that was so that all users can quickly identify which mods were on line, in case they needed any immediate assistance, etc...

Would be nice to have that re-instated...

Note: I am using Firefox.. not sure if IE or Chrome are the same results....

[Simon Lloyd]

Probably mentioned already...If so, then this is an emphasis post.

Moderator listed in the Currently Active Users used to be bolded.. and that was so that all users can quickly identify which mods were on line, in case they needed any immediate assistance, etc...

Would be nice to have that re-instated...

Note: I am using Firefox.. not sure if IE or Chrome are the same results....

It's the same in IE i mentioned it to Roy a few days back, they will need to look at the css for that area.

[darkyam]

Same in Chrome, too.

[shg]

And change code boxes back to a fixed-pitch font ...

[darkyam]

Vai,
Just looked at the thread's history a little and you haven't been on since the 21st. I know and respect that you have your own business, but how long does it take to post a one-line message saying, "I'm going to be out of town for the next week. Keep the comments coming and I'll check them when I get back."? We all have better things to do (save maybe DO ), but it's very rare that I see a thread left hanging like this.

[StephenR]

And another thing, don't know if it's been mentioned already...

And change code boxes back to a fixed-pitch font ...

[Simon Lloyd]

Does anyone think that Benjamin Spooner Briggs and Friday, December 13th 1872 have something in common with Vai and this thread?

[darkyam]

Nice reference. I was thinking Bermuda Triangle.

[martindwilson]

perhaps he lives in Bennington, Vermont?

[Domski]

He must be too busy hunting down people who contravene Rule 13!

Dom

[NBVC]

I think the Titanic has hit the iceburg again and the ship is going under... the question is do we abandon ship or stay with the captain?

[Domski]

I think the Titanic has hit the iceburg again and the ship is going under... the question is do we abandon ship or stay with the captain?

Or reach for the gin & tonic and the ice pick

Dom

[Simon Lloyd]

I think the Titanic has hit the iceburg again and the ship is going under... the question is do we abandon ship or stay with the captain?

Don't stay with the captain but do stay with the ship as she is sound and carried you a long way, so if nothing else do it for her!

Or reach for the gin & tonic and the ice pick

Dom

now thats an ATTRACTION that could prove FATAL

[darkyam]

How do we go about appointing a new captain for our ship?

[StephenR]

Does anyone know how this site is run? Who pays, who does the work? Is Vaibhav the Big Boss responsible for everything?

[broro183]

Yep, I agree. The ship is sound :-)

[Simon Lloyd]

How do we go about appointing a new captain for our ship?

RoyUk is admin, however he doesn't have full autonomy (whic is a shame), but then again Roy has plenty enough to do in life outside the forum, - to be honest you/we/members can shout all we want but without a dedicated all singing all dancing captain we either have to lump it or vote with our mouse and click elsewhere for a while

Does anyone know how this site is run? Who pays, who does the work? Is Vaibhav the Big Boss responsible for everything?

Answer: Vaibhav owns the site, his employees administer all the cosmetics and physical changes and RoyUk is admin but with not enough power/flexibility or creative say, below that (not below in a lesser sense ) are the mods who are very, very frustrated as they have been asking for and discussing changes for the good of the forum for years but hardly ever getting a response.

Yep, I agree. The ship is sound :-)

I've been here at EF for 6 years, you only stay at a place that long if it has something, i know i own my own similar site but i love it here and always have done - stick with it

[Vaibhav]

Hi Vaibhav,

On the navigation menu bar, when the cursor hovers over a menu "box", the text changes colour as part of the hover action, but the link doesn't become available until the cursor hovers over the box lettering.

With the initial box text colour change, a user gets the impression that it is possible to click to the link, however nothing happens. This is a little frustrating. Would it be possible to allow the link to become active as part of the initial box hover?

Cheers,

Good Suggestion, Actually we are using text and not images, and the link is on the text but i will talk to the css coders to see if we can have link on the complete box.

In the particular instance, I'd say the issue was more about competence than passion. How about bringing Simon back, who was both?

Simon resigned voluntarily and he is free to join back if he wants to.

I think it's good to have a log out link, but it's a little hard to read with the white font. Also, I think it might look a little cleaner on the right side of the bar or, perhaps better still, in that little box at the top that tells us how many messages we have.

We did try to have it there while we were implementing the design but it looked kinda out of place, if you want we can place it there and every one can feedback on it.

Affirmative.

Bar breaks into 2, 3 or more (depending on how you squeeze your window) in all possible browsers in all possible universes.

Attachment 63224

It has to do something with the liquid design we have done, will get it corrected asap.

Vai, the code font issue is still not sorted. Apart from the fact that it is still proportional (in IE, FF and Safari), there is also a difference in size (in FF), even within the same thread. For example in this thread, http://www.excelforum.com/excel-gene...om-1-cell.html
the first code box has much smaller font than the second code box when viewed with Firefox. If you don't have FF, here's a screenshot.

Yes, looks like they tested it with only one code box. Thanks teylyn, i ll get it corrected.

Probably mentioned already...If so, then this is an emphasis post.

Moderator listed in the Currently Active Users used to be bolded.. and that was so that all users can quickly identify which mods were on line, in case they needed any immediate assistance, etc...

Would be nice to have that re-instated...

Note: I am using Firefox.. not sure if IE or Chrome are the same results....

This will be corrected right away.

Does anyone know how this site is run? Who pays, who does the work? Is Vaibhav the Big Boss responsible for everything?

Stephen, Site is run by the members who help each other and the moderators and admins who make sure there is proper decorum.

As far as technical stuff is concerned I use my inhouse team and also hire companies to do core changes if required.

We have dual xenon servers with 8 gigs of ram which are paid off by the adverts which are shown to the unregistered members.

[Simon Lloyd]

Good Suggestion, Actually we are using text and not images, and the link is on the text but i will talk to the css coders to see if we can have link on the complete box.



Simon resigned voluntarily and he is free to join back if he wants to.

I did resign but you really dont want the circumstances aired here Vai, probably best not discussed in public

Stephen, Site is run by the members who help each other and the moderators and admins who make sure there is proper decorum.

As far as technical stuff is concerned I use my inhouse team and also hire companies to do core changes if required.

We have dual xenon servers with 8 gigs of ram which are paid off by the adverts which are shown to the unregistered members.

If the members really DO run the forum then surely they should get everything they ask for?

Good Suggestion, Actually we are using text and not images, and the link is on the text but i will talk to the css coders to see if we can have link on the complete box.

perhaps either have the link and box hover the same colour or use html button which is seen by search engines as text anyway so no SEO loss

[Ron Coderre]

I can pretty much cope with any kind of change as long as there is real purpose behind the change.

Now, apart from having to wear dark glasses to view the forum, Here's what really annoys me:
What's the point of forcing posters to use CODE tags if the font isn't really any different
from the normal font? (in IE8, at least). The "new" CODE font uses proportional...NOT fixed spacing.

Example:
using these lists of 10 character strings, that begin with 3 spaces (that are not displaying):
123abc7890 ABC45DEfg8
..3456abcd 123abc7890
ABC45DEfg8 ..3456abcd

When enclosed in CODE tags, they should ALL be the same length,
like this (using the courier font). Notice, however, that the leading spaces are absent!:
123abc7890 ABC45DEfg8
..3456abcd 123abc7890
ABC45DEfg8 ..3456abcd

But, using CODE tags:

   123abc7890   ABC45DEfg8
   ..3456abcd   123abc7890
   ABC45DEfg8   ..3456abcd

The only thing the CODE tags do correctly is display the leading 3 spaces.
The colums do NOT line up!

Without a fixed font in CODE tags, actual code drifts left and right, depending on the
content. Also, CODE tags used to be the perfect vehicle to display multi-column lists and
formulas, due to the tidy way it presented them. Not any more.

The only way I finally got the proper presentation was to use a combination of CODE tags
and a courier font:

   123abc7890   ABC45DEfg8
   ..3456abcd   123abc7890
   ABC45DEfg8   ..3456abcd

I'd like to see this fix expedited.