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Understanding the mechanism by which Excel parses sheets and determines circular refs

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    Understanding the mechanism by which Excel parses sheets and determines circular refs

    Hi everyone

    Warning: some will find this question spurious as it is not related to the regular, rational use of Excel. Stop reading if that troubles you!

    A slightly obscure question for you all. When there is a circular reference in a sheet (Excel 2013), a blue arrow appears between the pair of cells. If there are multiple circular references in a sheet, only one pairing is indicated in this way - the remaining circular references remain unindicated. However, the pairing indicated by the blue arrow is not static - as unrelated edits are made to a sheet, every now and then the indicated pairing will lose its blue arrow and another pair will be indicated instead. This appears to be an unpredictable behaviour - both the timing of the change, and which new pairing gets indicated. Does anyone have any insight into what's going on under the hood here? Is there a predictable way to control this behaviour? And is there a way to have blue arrows show up for All the circular references at once?

    My interest in this has nothing to do with managing circular references in the regular sense. I play around with spreadsheets attempting to exploit various functions, quirks, glitches etc to artistic ends - so I'm dabbling with what can be achieved with circular references.

    Many thanks,
    Jordan

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    Re: Understanding the mechanism by which Excel parses sheets and determines circular refs

    Hi

    From what I understand Excel usually shows errors or highlights items based on where it assumes you will be going next (by default right then down), depending on your selected cell. So if you have a circ ref to the left of the currently selected cell and none to the right, it will move down to the next row and start moving right to highlight the next one.

    In terms of showing circ references you can do this manually (although it will be cell by cell), by selecting the a cell with a circular reference, the goto formulas tab and click Trace Predendents and/or Trace Descendents to show the cells that the selected cells formula calculates from/to (see image). These blue lines will stay up permanently until you clear them.
    Circ Ref tracing.jpg

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    Re: Understanding the mechanism by which Excel parses sheets and determines circular refs

    Identifying exactly where a circ ref is in excel becomes more complex in direct relation to the complexity of the workbook.

    Where excel says the CE is, is often not really where the fault lays. The approach I have often had to use to find the culprit , is to delete the cell (or range of cells) that excel says contains the error - then go to the next cell that "contains" the error, delete that...repeat until the error goes away. Make a note of that last delete, undo all the deletes (or just reload the file if there were lots), then go straight to the offending cell and fix that

    Long winded and a pain sometimes, but I have yet to find an easier way
    1. Use code tags for VBA. [code] Your Code [/code] (or use the # button)
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    Regards
    Ford

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    Re: Understanding the mechanism by which Excel parses sheets and determines circular refs

    you can sometimes speed the process up by setting iteration limits for Circular references and look for returned faults or errors, but really depends on whether or not you're looking for faults.

    I often use Circular references in worksheets because one or other of the cells will be overwritten with data and the other will calculate based on that.

    For instance a value vs percentage. Sometimes the information is supplied as a percentage of the cost, other times as a specific value and I want both to be displayed, so rather than have blank cells and calulate each time I set circular references between them and overwrite as required.

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    Re: Understanding the mechanism by which Excel parses sheets and determines circular refs

    I don't have any insights into how Excel highlights circular references -- especially when there are multiple circular references or when the circular reference is complex. It is probably related to something inside of Excel's code. Like Ford, I know that I have observed that Excel is not always consistent in how it highlights circular references.

    You say that you like to do this for "artistic purposes". I wonder if you have seen Gregor Y's strange attractor thread -- where he uses circular references (iteration enabled) and his knowledge of different fractals to create some interesting pictures in Excel: http://www.excelforum.com/tips-and-t...eferences.html
    Quote Originally Posted by shg
    Mathematics is the native language of the natural world. Just trying to become literate.

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    Re: Understanding the mechanism by which Excel parses sheets and determines circular refs

    Thanks for the tips everyone. =D

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