# Off Topic > Suggestions for Improvement >  > [SOLVED] Issue - posts disappearing

## TMS

The forum corruption still seems to be happening.

The thread that I raised to highlight the issue of posts disappearing has, itself, vanished.

This is becoming very disconcerting.

Is this something that can be addressed as a matter of urgency?

Thanks, TMS

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## Paul

Which threads/forum in particular?  Any you can search for or have keywords for?  If you can't see them, not sure I can either...

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## TMS

Probably better answer quickly, just in case.

The threads were, I think, all in the Water Cooler.  Several were from teylyn and others commenting on the changes to the moderator team, etc.

I can't even tell you the names now. I got positive rep on one but now it shows up as N/A.

What can have happened?

Regards, TMS

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## tom1977

new moderator and admin (the old one) simply deleted them

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## Paul

As Tom said, they were likely deleted.  I did some spring cleaning of the threads myself last night, too, so blame shouldn't automatically be cast in any specific direction.  I deleted several threads in public forums such as this one that only served to flame the situation.  I don't recall the names of the threads or who posted in them, just the context.

If you are a former Moderator, and will be hanging around, please stick to helping those in need by sharing your knowledge.  If you are a current Moderator, please discuss your grievances with the owner/admin within the confines of the Moderators forum.

As a Moderator I will not hesitate to delete any threads that do not maintain a level of restraint and decency expected from adults and business people.

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## royUK

I haven't deleted any such threads. No-one should in my opinion.

Paul have a chat to vai if you want to become admin, otherwise according to Vai I am still admin. If you feel a post is not valid soft delete it & check what others think - don't make unilateral decisions. Same applies to Arlette.

Also, how do you expect former moderators to discuss anything in a Forum without access to it?

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## TMS

@Paul: ah, so, to the Dark Side you have gone over  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

It was not my intention to "flame the situation", just to highlight what I perceive as some highly questionable decisions.

You know my former status, and my current status, and hence must be aware that I can no longer take up issues with the owner in the privacy of the Moderators' Forum.

But, even if I did, I think we know the outcome.

Regards, TMS

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## Pepe Le Mokko

> ah, so, to the Dark Side you have gone over



That's a nice one !





> If you are a former Moderator, and will be hanging around, please stick to helping those in need by sharing your knowledge



So much for democracy...

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## arlu1201

Yes Roy, thats why i have soft-deleted one of the threads in the watercooler.  I didnt get a chance to sync up with you regarding it.  I have discussed it with Vai who gave his suggestion to delete it.  What do you think?

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## Domski

> @Paul: ah, so, to the Dark Side you have gone over



LOL  :Smilie: 

Dom

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## royUK

Arlette - post a link

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## arlu1201

http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...happening.html

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## royUK

I can't see anything abusive or rude in that post. It merely contains Teylyn's opinions - as far as Iknow members are allowed their own opinions. My son & many of his comrades are fighting now to support democracy.

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## john55

hi,
ref link, is this error on my side only?
"Invalid Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

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## TMS

@John: no, you'd have to be a Mod or an Admin to see a deleted post ... which this is.  I cn't see it either.

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## john55

oh, yes, I see!
it's funny to see comments/dialogs about something "visible" but in fact is "hidden"...

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## martindwilson

i hope never to behave like " business people".

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## Simon Lloyd

> If you are a former Moderator, and will be hanging around, please stick to helping those in need by sharing your knowledge.  If you are a current Moderator, please discuss your grievances with the owner/admin within the confines of the Moderators forum.
> 
> As a Moderator I will not hesitate to delete any threads that do not maintain a level of restraint and decency expected from adults and business people.



Paul, whilst moderating is a thankless task and i appluad you for it the above statement is a little rude and confrontational!





> Yes Roy, thats why i have soft-deleted one of the threads in the watercooler.  I didnt get a chance to sync up with you regarding it.  I have discussed it with Vai who gave his suggestion to delete it.  What do you think?



Shouldn't this be discussed in the mods forum and not in publc?


Google Me  :Smilie: 
Find me located here *Simon Lloyd* and what i'm about Here
The above is NOT a link to a forum so is NOT against Rule 13

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## abousetta

I honestly think there should be a 'private forum/ email list' for current and past moderators to discuss their grievences. This is not a bad breakup (and to the best of my knowledge it was not some sort of love triangle gone bad) but rather disagreements between the owner of the site and highly valued individuals who have spent a great deal of time developing this site. I don't understand why there is such a flambount display of emotions on both sides of issue. Its a public forum, no one pays anyone to post or respond to posts (unless I missed the check in the mail). If you don't want to provide your free, unsolicited help, then don't... if you do, then do it. The only reward here is the experience gained and gratitude from fellow members. Simon was here long before I came on board and also left long before then either. He still provides help now and then even though he has his own site now. That should be an example for others who decide they want to find a new path to spread their knowledge and experience.

abousetta

P.S. Roy you had no problem with one of the other Mods deleting one of my threads and said that you support them blindly, so shouldn't you give the same respect to the current mods. Sounds like double-standards since Paul isn't siding with you on this issue.

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## royUK

abousetta - I don't recall that incident nor why it was deleted. Possible you answered a question after a moderator had posted a warning. My trust in the former moderators was total, hence I would back them unless clearly wrong.

As far as I am concerned these current posts were deleted because they voiced an opinion not shared by the current owner. Attempts were made to discuss this & other problems in the Private Mods' Forum, but totally disregarded. After having moderator status removed ex-mods cannot access that Forum.

At one point someone moved a private post discussing issues from the Mods' Forum to the Water Cooler so what's the point of trying to keep discussions private.

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## abousetta

Here is a thread I had started related to the deleted thread (which by the way did not break any of the posted rules, but that's an issue long gone by now).

Why can't there be a private, by invitation-only, thread where the past and present moderators can discuss these issues. What does it really have to do with the overall forum except foment negative feelings when everything is out in the open. It feels like there is a divorce and everyone is expected to take sides. 

"Mom, dad... please stop the fighting... my brothers and sisters can't take it any more  :Frown:  "

Now replace mom and dad with old mods and current mods, and brothers and sisters with forum members and you get the picture.

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## Simon Lloyd

abousetta, Roy isn't given the capability (although he should) to create a forum that can be joined by those people to discuss information, nor is he given the trust as admin to work on the code in the templates otherwise he would be able to start a thread and then code it in such a way that only designated members can get in, had he had the power i'm sure he would to facilitate this  :Smilie:

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## abousetta

I am not a politician (as I lost the elections for class president back in Eigth grade), but I think that there should be ways around this. A simple email group (listserv), PMs to all mods at the same time (not sure what the limit on number of users you can PM at the same time), etc. All I am saying is that these issues are better discussed behind closed doors. In the open, it just clutters up the whole thing... I remember one of the new forum members posting something to the likes of if you don't want to be a moderator then have your account deleted. Of course, someone who has invested years on this site would feel offended if some newbie told them that and things only go downhill from there. I have no stake either way. I have no ambitions of being a modertor, no do I have time. I do moderatore indirectly when I have time by giving suggestions to fellow members if I think they have broken one of the rules, but that's just out of curtosy to the site and the community.

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## royUK

abousetta, that links no help. Was it a post complaining about MS MVPs? I think it was & that's why it was deleted.

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## abousetta

It wasn't complaining about MS MVPs, on the contrary, it was a list of people who have claimed to be MVPs accoriding to their profiles. One of the moderators (you'll see that I am not stating names because I don't like to point fingers) felt that there were mistakes in it because some of the names were of previous (not current) MVPs. It was a hard deletion, with no trace of the thread left behind. I complained and you told me that you supported your mods 100%, which I am fine with. It just seems a little unfair for you to tell Paul not to delete threads without coming back to you, when you supported this same practice in the past.

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## Mordred

@abousetta, I just wanted to throw my two cents into something you had stated a few posts ago.  You had mentioned that it seems like there is an expectation for members to "pick sides" and I don't think that is at all true.  As you may have noticed, a few of the ex-mods still come here to help others and I haven't seen a post from anyone stating: follow us or don't follow them.  Personally, I made my decision based on the lack of respect shown towards the mods and admin by the owner as well as, if he [Vai] doesn't show courtesy to long time members such as Roy and the rest that have been here from the start then what are the odds of courtesy being shown to anyone else?  It's very frustrating to be lied to or ignored constantly which is why many of us have taken such a personal stance on the forum issues.  I do agree with many statements where we shouldn't let things like this bother us (basically, get a life) but like it or not, this is a part of my life now and I do take it seriously.  To say that it is not a part of someone like NBVC's life (look at his post count) would be silly.  All of this, every last angry post and empowering deletion, could have been avoided if this fiasco was handled with professionalism right from the get go but alas it wasn't.  So much so that the un-professionalism was inherited by those in between from the top of the hierarchy.  Such is life!

As for hard deleting threads, I disagree with the notion 100% unless it is spam.  If a community cannot air out its issues then it's not much of a community.  Prohibiting one's voice (or in this case key stroke[s]) is an unhealthy way to broaching the issues and dealing with them.

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## abousetta

Hi Modred,

I hear you loud and clear and I would like to thank every admin and moderator (past and present) for their efforts. Moderators don't just moderate, they also answer so many questions. You could hire a minimum wage (or less) individual to double-check each and every post to make sure that they comply with the rules and if not to post a remark. That's not what moderators do here... they are the true building blocks of the site... they are MVPs... they are gurus... they are just all-around helpful people. I am sure that a lot of people are dis-inclined to post here if they know their favorite responders are no longer around. I know that I for one learned almost everything I know from the wonderful pillars that make up this site and have a hard time moving on.

I sincerely hope that the website owner, admin, mods, and gurus (all except me since I am not really anything special) can come together and provide a unique experience for the 100K unique vistors that Vai talks about. Vai, I know that noone is going to thank you for your job of owning the website, but you need the mods more than they need you... they can just move on, but they will also take their fanfare with them. They are not asking for much, except mutual respect and a descent working environment. The ball is really in your corner. You can hire whomever you want, promote whoever you want, or use whatever software you want, but don't get too grandure because 100K can become a flatline in a heartbeat if there is noone with real experience and knowledge to respond to the posts.

I wish you all the best and hope that this storm will be a thing of the past.

abousetta

Disclaimer: I have no relationship with anyone on this site (owners, admin or mods) outside our online interactions. I have no hidden agendas nor seek to support any side of this argument.

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## Simon Lloyd

Lol, nice disclaimer  :Smilie:

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## NBVC

Where is the "formula" thread that was in the Testing Forum?  The shame is so easily brushed away isn't it?....  Painting a pretty picture by deleting all those posts doesn't clean up the human side.... the respect for the veterans, the people who tirelessly gave their all to make this forum what it was and is, the millions of people that we all collectively helped over the years, and the respect for MS MVP's in an MS Help forum is shameful.. calling them Chit Chatters (going so far as to labeling their handles as such), banning them, lying to them, patronizing them, not giving a hoot about their opinions .... I wonder how Microsoft would like to answer to that?  Hmmmm ... let me think....

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## TMS

Seems that not only posts disappear ... teylyn is no longer a "chit chatter" or even a "banned user", she's just not there at all.  So much for my plea to have the ban lifted.

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## Paul

She still has a profile page.. http://www.excelforum.com/members/teylyn.html

How is she not "there"?

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## TMS

If I go the members' list and sort by rep, she's not there (on page 1, way above me). And, if I search for her, I get "sorry - no matches".

I can still see her profile if I click on her name in the infraction she gave me. Which is good news because whatever has been done can be undone. 

How did you pull up the link?

Perhaps the mods can still see her in the list?

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## Paul

I checked the member list like you and didn't find it, so I used Google.

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## TMS

What does that say to you?  :Frown:

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## abousetta

Food for thought:

We all work for free by interacting on this (and other similar) websites coined 'free labour'  by Tiziana Terranova. The ideology states that the complexity of labour in the digital economy has become so complex that it thrives off of free volunteers. "The production of free and open source software but also participation in discussion on mail lists" and as an extension forums, blog, etc. requires a constant feed of information from users. Why else do you think Facebook is worth $100 billion. There was an opinion paper by two academians out of the UK earlier this year titled: "They are exploiting us! Why we all work for Facebook for free" which argues that by interacting in free online websites, we the users, actually become the commodity.

Taking this message home, as NBVC and others have noted, what is the return on investment for the hours/ days/ years put into improving the quality of this website. Vai has noted that since 1998, the number of unique visitors has jumped 10 fold, but the infrastructure and support has obviously lagged.

My honest, unbiased appeal, would be for Vai to quiety (behind closed doors) discuss the demands of the key members of this site and come to a concensus on how to move forward. Vai may own the website, but the users are the worker bees. Without them, you would have an empty shell without any activity.

Best wishes to all.

abousetta

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## arlu1201

> Where is the "formula" thread that was in the Testing Forum?



 I too was looking for it since i had created it for testing purposes with the tech team.

However, i found that someone has moved it to the Mod forum.  I will just create another one for the testing.

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## MarvinP

Hi abousetta,

I've always known that I work for free dollars but was really wanting appreciation points.  It makes me feel good to have someone say "Thanks" or "Great Answer".  I believe in the "Pay it Forward" mentality in that some carma will follow us along and reward us for all our "free" work helping others.  I found this site and was helping others when it occured to me the Guru's were actually teaching me something.  I was getting better at Excel.  This was a great payback.  I've enjoyed playing "answer the question" when it is a two way street and I actually learn Excel better.  

Now for the problem.  When the real Guru's leave, there are less people who can teach me things.  

I've always had a question about the importance of "Who you know" vs "What you know".  Problems on this site are passed around until they hit a person who knows the answer.  These people are into "What you know".  They are the people who understand Excel and can solve problems.  All the other people are "Who you know" kinds of people and think they can just ask their freinds to get an answer.  These people who believe in "Who you know" think if you have a wide enough search engine, someone will have the answer.  I think this mentality is just wrong.  I think this site has existed and survived because some of the people who really KNOW excel have given time and effort to supply answers.  If these people leave there are a lot less who can really answer the questions.  When these Guru's leave the site becomes a bunch of followers with no real "smart leader" to follow.  

I know that I work for free dollars but hope and expect that my answers get some appreciation.  If I don't get appreciated for my effort, I vote with my feet and try to find a place where I am appreciated.  I believe the really "smart" people leaving, mostly because their opinions haven't been accepted or appreciated, leads me to believe my goal of being appreciated from the owners of this site will never be achieved.  

I've had a lot of various jobs in my lifetime.  When I taught High School math and was writing BASIC code back in 1970, I was thinking my skill might be appreciated by the principal or my collegues.  Another teacher challenged me one day about my self image of worth and said "If you are such a good programmer, what are you doing teaching?".  I soon left teaching to work in the computer industry (at 3 times the salary).  If others don't appreciate your work or think you are doing a good job, why do it?  I think this is what is happening here.

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## abousetta

Can't agree with you more MP. Free forums are a dime a dozen, its the people that make it dynamic and special. The software that runs this forum is sold to anyone who has a couple of hundred bucks to spare. In other words each one of us could probably startup our own forum if we wanted, but then what's the use, without the man power behind it, it will become a lost soul in the land of dead website ideas. The internet bubble burst a long time ago... if things don't turn around soon here, I can forsee a not so fortunate future for this forum too. 

abousetta

P.S. One of the ways I guage a forum is by looking at who is responding and what kind of answers are they providing. If all the threads are being responded to by newbies rather than vetrans then you know to keep looking to place to settle in. This phenomon is starting to happen here. I used to have a hard time finding a thread I could answer because the pros were providing top-notch innovative ideas. Now... well everyone knows what is happening now...

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## royUK

> My honest, unbiased appeal, would be for Vai to quiety (behind closed doors) discuss the demands of the key members of this site and come to a concensus on how to move forward. Vai may own the website, but the users are the worker bees. Without them, you would have an empty shell without any activity.
> 
> 
> abousetta



Don't you think we've tried all that? There's a sticky post in the mods' forum from February, 2010 with a discussion of how to restructure the Forum which was never inolemented

The formulas post is in moderators' forum as mentioned, but it's been censored!

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## snb

There a 'curious' tendency that posts are much faster being locked, closed and deleted and moderators being banned than self inflicted problems by downgrading the forum are being solved.
Priority seems to lie with censoring posts and members instead of properly designing, programming, administering & moderating the forum.

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## Simon Lloyd

@snb, it seems the thread i made in this forum asking for discussion on my signature (and of course the post didnt break any rules, just a plain old "please comment on this") has been deleted, so i guess the "staff" or owner here doesn't want that discussion out in the open, i dont understand what they have to be afraid of, naturally the responses that i had to that thread have been emailed to me so i've not lost those.

I was just seeking clarification on how everyone else percieves the rules and they deleted the thread!

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## Simon Lloyd

My apologies to the staff and Vai, it's not been deleted but there's some really strange behaviour in the water cooler at least, my thread didnt appear there but did in my subscribed threads, clicked it made a post and there it is, but this thread had disappeared, looked in my subscribed threads, there it was and here's my post?

Very odd!

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## Simon Lloyd

It seems not only are my posts being closed for no good reason they are also being deleted before anyone can respond, i'm talking about this thread http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...rum-rules.html in the first instance!

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## Vaibhav

Simon, trying to create un-necessary issues is not something appreciated at all. Your signature is not as per the rules and any discussion regarding the rules you should just PM me or mods and its not something which should go outside of the mods forum. 

Also don't create new threads for the same discussion as i have closed the old one for a reason.

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## TMS

@Simon: Naughty Simon ... hijacking my thread  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Simon Lloyd

I dont have access to the mods forum, i was discussing it with my fellow community members, you didnt state a reason for closing the other thread! you should be able to handle healthy discussion, the rules do not state that i cannot discuss it, they do not state that i have to pm you or do it in private.

The thread i created was to poll opinion from fellow members, after all they are what makes this forum thrive, they should have right to discussion and give their opinion on how the rule should be read, you denied them that, even though all those that responded said it wasn't against the rules!

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## Simon Lloyd

I wasn't hijacking  :Smilie:  this thread is about posts going missing, i created one and it went missing!!

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## TMS

Ah, and there was me thinking we were veering slightly OT and discussing rules about signatures  :Cool:

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## Simon Lloyd

Oh no we cant do that as Vai has deleted that thread now  :Smilie: , what he forgets is that everyone who is subscribed to it or the forum get email notification of the posts and responses so they will have seen it, just like these posts!

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## arlu1201

Someone mentioned that a major thread from the mods forum was moved to the water-cooler forum by the owner and thus he has no consideration for privacy.  I would say this is utterly wrong.  We do not know who is the one who moved the thread.  But i saw it in water-cooler and asked Vai about it. He too was shocked that it was moved to water-cooler and asked me to move it back to the mods forum.

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## NBVC

You are a true comedian Arlette....

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## arlu1201

What makes you say so NBVC?  I was only proving a point.  I too was shocked that the "Announcement" thread was moved from the mods forum to the watercooler.

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## TMS

@NBVC: I think that would be comedienne ...  :Wink:

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## NBVC

Just like Actresses like to be referred to as Actors (at least in America), I think the same goes for comedienne/comedian....

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## TMS

@NBVC: I use old school English ... just doesn't sound right to me  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Simon Lloyd

Of course you can simply check who moved the post in the admincp>statistics & Logs>Moderator Log you really should get to know the basics of the software you are using, it would help everyone!

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## arlu1201

I dont think i have access to the admincp, Simon.  Nevertheless, thanks for the info.  I will ask Vai to check into it.

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## SchubertF

For all means, girl, get to know the tools you can use. Thread tools > edit thread will give you a view with a history of all changes to a thread. 

Do you need a link to the vBulletin help files or will you be able to google that yourself?

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## arlu1201

Thanks for the information.  Its not Thread Tools but actually "Administrative" -> Edit Thread.  

I have already got this info from Vai from the Admin control panel so we are good to go.  Thanks once again.

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## SchubertF

Yay, well, as a new member I don't know the ins and outs of  the configurations of this forum setup. 

So, who moved the cheese? ehrmm.... thread ... from the mod forum to the water cooler?

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## snb

In the mean while you can whistle a quartet with your colleagues VanBeethovenL; probably MozartWA & SalieriA will join you soon.
If you forgot your scores, or if they disappeared by no reason have a look at 'An equal music' by Vikram Seth.

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## arlu1201

Sorry, this cannot be discussed outside of the mods forum.

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