# Off Topic > The Water Cooler >  >  Forum Guru selection sucks!

## JapanDave

Currently, I see a lot of people that should be forum gurus that are not. What exactly is the criteria for those people to become forum gurus? Or is this just the whim of the admin and mods here? So, theoretically if they don't like someone they can prevent them from becoming a forum guru? Why is the forum guru status not voted within the peers of the Excel community? What makes the Admin and mods of this site the be all to end all?

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## Mordred

Well they are the admin and mods and hence the ones with the power so that's just the way it's going to be.  As they've stated to me regarding other issues, if you don't like it don't come here. :Frown: 

I'm sure all questions you have won't be answered here but give it a go anyways and heh, have a great day!  :Smilie:

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## JBeaucaire

The first group of Guru nominations came mostly from Mods/Admins and a few colorfully screamed nominations from the board in general, so that's what went through on the first group.  The Link Mordred gave does explain the simple process for attaining Guru status starts with a nomination from the Guru/Mod/Admin pool.

Each nomination will be voted on as a group, so yes, we certainly can keep that status away from someone, by a majority agreement. However the beloved free forum as a whole and the Expert status is available to all.

The forum Guru status is not voted on by a majority of the Excel community because that's not what is.  We're not offering Excel Guru status, we're offering EF Guru status and that is all.   A slightlier nifty title and access to the CSF forum is all that gets you.  Your behavior in the free forum is what gets you ACTUAL status amongst your peers, the quality of your Excel solutions.

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## Colin Legg

> Currently, I see a lot of people that should be forum gurus that are not.



In addition to the above comments, you'll also find that a number of members were offered forum guru status but declined it for their own reasons. 
So best not to jump to any conclusions that the powers that be ignored them in the nominations.

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## romperstomper

In addition to Colin's point, it is in fact quite a normal process that the mods/admins of a forum (usually plus the incumbent holders of the relevant title) vote on "promotions" such as this - the same is true pretty much everywhere I post.

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## JBeaucaire

And to be honest, it's also normal for some people to like the nominations, the results, heck, just about anything.  Not liking things is merely perception and feelings, all standard operating procedure.

The hard part is to not equate not liking something to it being wrong.  I find it easier to talk to people about the things we disagree on, the things I dislike, if my position isn't presented in the form of "this sucks", or "you suck", or even simpler..."you're wrong".  Even if I think it.  Saying is never helpful or constructive.  Is it?

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## romperstomper

There comes a point, though, when people feel they are not being listened to or heard, in which case it can be extremely cathartic to simply rage against the machine. If you don't allow that simple expression of frustration you run the risk of either allowing it to fester and explode later, or simply alienating people. So yes, it _can_ be helpful.

Also, everything besides pure logic is "merely perception and feelings".  :Wink:

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## JBeaucaire

I had a philophy teacher once offer, _"2 + 2 = 4 is merely an opinion"_.

That really didn't go over well with the math students in the class.

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## JapanDave

> In addition to the above comments, you'll also find that a number of members were offered forum guru status but declined it for their own reasons. 
> So best not to jump to any conclusions that the powers that be ignored them in the nominations.



I already knew that before I posted this thread. I guess I am just frustrated with the way things are going. Back when I first joined, there was a great number of well respected Excel "guru's" that helped me and helped me gain an interest in Excel. Some are still here, but most have moved on. 




> In addition to Colin's point, it is in fact quite a normal process that the mods/admins of a forum (usually plus the incumbent holders of the relevant title) vote on "promotions" such as this - the same is true pretty much everywhere I post.



I don't dispute that at all and to some extent agree with you, but it would be nice to allow a little input from the community.  :Smilie:

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## Domski

I've posted on a number of forums for years. At some point you just realise you're just not special enough to attain those hallowed titles  :Wink:

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## JapanDave

Don't worry Domski, I in the same boat as you! :Wink:

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## JapanDave

And can someone tell how Jindon is a Forum Guru?

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## JosephP

presumably by accepting an invitation ;-)

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## JapanDave

> presumably by accepting an invitation ;-)



So why are you not a Guru Joseph? 

And my point was, does Jindon deserve to be a guru?

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## JosephP

I'm not even an expert!

I guess it's a matter of opinion as with all the titles but from what I've seen yes he is

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## JapanDave

> I'm not even an expert!
> 
> I guess it's a matter of opinion as with all the titles but from what I've seen yes he is



Well you are more of a Guru then he will ever be. But, that is just my humble opinion.

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## JosephP

very kind of you but I don't agree :-)

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## Mordred

I think you rank higher than a Valued Forum Contributor JosephP, but that's just an opinion from the EF bada$$.   :Wink:

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## john55

Guru status seems to be something special, something similar as election of pope. Dave?! LoL
but yes, JosephP must be more than VFC.

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## Alf

I'm also surprised that JosephP is not a "Forum Expert" at least





> - Forum Expert: 360 days registered, 1200 posts and 600 reputation points



or do I misunderstand the Anglo Saxon date system because EF is only waiting for the third day in the 27th month of year 2013????

Alf

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## JosephP

my title was manually altered when I stepped down as moderator-that probably overrides the automatic systems-and I happen to like being vfc :-)

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## Mordred

> my title was manually altered when I stepped down as moderator-that probably overrides the automatic systems-and I happen to like being vfc :-)



Have to respect that!

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## john55

> my title was manually altered when I stepped down as moderator(...)



in this case, title should be changed using the same technique.  :Wink:

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## JBeaucaire

> in this case, title should be changed using the same technique.



In spite of his not wanting that?  Interesting idea.

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## john55

not a mod as a Forum Expert!

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## JBeaucaire

> I happen to like being vfc :-)



I fear you missed this.   :Wink:

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## HaHoBe

Hi, Jerry,

could you be kind enough to explain the Forum Rules on Titles to me - there´s no wish for anybody about being Forum Expert or VFC if she/he meets the requirements. Except: The so called Tech-Team isn´t able of doing what somebody wrote into the Rules. 

Again: *I* still do not meet the criteria to be a Forum Expert and have stated this more than once - if I were a Mod or Admin here my status would have been changed long ago (and so were those of the other members in question as well). We´re talking about a maximium of 100 users - what about the chinese word: every long voyage starts with the first edit?

Holger

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## john55

I did not, I took into account his points, his solutions that he provided. that's all. it's just my oppinion.

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## JBeaucaire

John, understood.  All opinoins, of course.  But if we're positing things the "should" be for other people, we should certainly defer to them when their opinion differs from ours.



Holger, I thing the forum rules page explains the forum titles sufficiently.  I'll refer you to that.  Seems off topic to me here.  
You do seem to meet the requisites.  :-O

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## HaHoBe

Hi, Jerry,

some rocket scientist gave me a boost (thanks for that).  :Wink: 

But what is buffling me right now is that somebody having 5 dark reputation points has been awarded the title of Forum Guru  - why on earth is there a limitation of 600 rep points in the FAQ if 5 dark mean less or equal to 500? How can anybody not meeting the criteria for Forum Expert be chosen from that "elite group" as Guru (bonus: must be made in unisono with other members)? Ouch, I think I´m on my way out of here because of just stating this here and quite frankly (will keep the other things to say in my native tongue and well locked inside my head). 

Ciao,
Holger

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## arlu1201

Holger,

We are reviewing the titles being changed and checking for all those which are incorrectly done.  Should be completed soon.

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## Fotis1991

....................................

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## john55

Fotis, 
we do not decline your invitation, just say it, sure, we can talk about issues, improvements or any other stuff...  LoL

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## Fotis1991

Morning John.

I posted here by mistake. Just why i deleted it immediately. I said many times my opinion for all these so no need to do it for 1 more time.

Have a nice day! :Smilie:

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## john55

Fotis, I have in mind the invitation in Greece... LoL

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## Fotis1991

Any time... :Smilie:

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## john55

Fotis, 
10x! I ignore those dots. ))

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## JBeaucaire

> Hi, Jerry,
> 
> some rocket scientist gave me a boost (thanks for that). 
> 
> But what is buffling me right now is that somebody having 5 dark reputation points has been awarded the title of Forum Guru  - why on earth is there a limitation of 600 rep points in the FAQ if 5 dark mean less or equal to 500? How can anybody not meeting the criteria for Forum Expert be chosen from that "elite group" as Guru (bonus: must be made in unisono with other members)? Ouch, I think I´m on my way out of here because of just stating this here and quite frankly (will keep the other things to say in my native tongue and well locked inside my head). 
> 
> Ciao,
> Holger



Holger, if the title thing and the coding on the forum is of primary importance to you, above the whole _"help others with Excel issues and improve our skill in the process"_, then I understand and wish you the best if you choose to leave.

If it's not of primary importance, then I trust you'll stay.

600 Rep points is the basic requirement so that someone who comes here daily and asks questions, but never spends time answering questions, will ever be deemed Expert on the site.  Even questions asked add the value of the forum, so they may ask enough questions to attain VFC.  That's it on that query.

There's been a lot of manually tweaking to longer-term folks over the years and much of that is interfering with the automatic stuff.  With help of people like you spotting and pointing out those few inconsisties, they will all be cleared up.  Thanks for helping on that.

No one who does not meet the Expert status and has it accidentally/on error will be promoted manually by the leadership team to Guru status.  Again, these errors are being cleared up.

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## jindon

> And can someone tell how Jindon is a Forum Guru?



I had no reason to reject the offer this time and actually this is the 2nd time offer.

I had to reject the offer that was back in 2008 from Simon to be a Moderator, but I had to reject it for my personal reason.

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## AndyLitch

Personally speaking, I get a lot out of this forum... I used to consider myself "something" of an expert but I've learned loads from you guys in just the last couple of months. In return, I try and help out people who are a bit further down the ladder of expertise and so everything pretty much balances out for me.. It's all voluntary and I'm allowed to give or take as I choose so it's Mission accomplished.
Titles and accolades are nice but incidental as far as I'm concerned..

P.S.. Do I win a tee shirt ?

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## JapanDave

> I had no reason to reject the offer this time and actually this is the 2nd time offer.
> 
> I had to reject the offer that was back in 2008 from Simon to be a Moderator, but I had to reject it for my personal reason.



Don't take this the wrong way, but I was just pointing out that there are definitely people here who should be Guru's who are not. Now ,that is not taking into consideration those who have rejected the status. And I think Simon is a good judge ,so you deffinately deserve the title.

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## AlvaroSiza

> Personally speaking, I get a lot out of this forum... I used to consider myself "something" of an expert but I've learned loads from you guys in just the last couple of months. In return, I try and help out people who are a bit further down the ladder of expertise and so everything pretty much balances out for me.. It's all voluntary and I'm allowed to give or take as I choose so it's Mission accomplished.
> Titles and accolades are nice but incidental as far as I'm concerned..
> 
> P.S.. Do I win a tee shirt ?



A lucid, well-purposed post - one of the best summations I've seen. With the exception of "something of an expert", I relate to this almost in its totality. This is why the forum exists...at least in my opinion. I can say with certainty that SNB and the like could answer something I have answered for someone 'on down the ladder' in two lines of code when it took me 20, but that doesn't preclude me from helping. It's the process...and the process is the forum.

My $0.02 in a thread of greats.

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## TMS

snb's code examples are magnificent in their brevity and efficiency. But they do have a tendency to be difficult to follow and, maybe, apply to the real world problem.

And I wouldn't want to have to maintain them.  I have enough trouble remembering what my own code was intended to do after a couple of months ... and that is even with the 10 lines of code and 10 lines of comments to remind me what the routine does and what specific lines of code do.

Regards, TMS

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## jindon

> *Don't take this the wrong way,* but I was just pointing out that there are definitely people here who should be Guru's who are not. Now ,that is not taking into consideration those who have rejected the status. And I think Simon is a good judge ,so you deffinately deserve the title.



I hope so.....????





> *And my point was, does Jindon deserve to be a guru?*

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## JapanDave

Hey, what can I say... I trust Simons judgment, people are allowed to change their minds.  :Smilie:

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## JBeaucaire

Yes they are, and I'm glad they do.

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