# Off Topic > Suggestions for Improvement >  > Issue - Accusations or Accusative language by Moderators

## espressonator

I am very new to this forum, and as soon as I searched for a helpful topic I came across a thread that, based upon the title, I thought may be of some help to me.   Here is (what would have been if I werent't a newbie) a link to it:  
excel-programming-vba-macros/1299147-multiple-match-formula-needed

Now, the first response to the OP in this thread is by a Moderator, Pepe Le Mokko (members/121904), and all it says is "Please read the yellow banner...".  Since I am new, I had no idea what that means when I saw it, or how it can contribute to my need to glean information from that thread.  I replied accordingly: 

"I'm not sure the yellow banner will help me to understand what to do with this question or any answers posted. I'm guessing that the o.p. failed to follow a forum rule, but your response is cryptic, so I'm not sure if I should look for a better question find an answer for my issue or if the o.p. may have corrected whatever was the issue and now the answers here may help me..."

Then I received a response from another moderator (actually a Forum Guru),  JeteMc (members/815954), in which I am accused of "hijacking" the thread.  Why is there a need to publicly accuse me of nefarious behavior?  I had no intention of posting in that thread, until I saw that an extremely unhelpful, cryptic, moderation comment raised the spectre of unhelpfulness of the rest of the thread, and I felt a need to ask for clarification.  My response to Pepe Le Mokko is, IMHO, completely relevant to that particular thread, so I request that the Guru now clarify why there is a need to insult me for requesting clarification of such a cryptic remark by a moderator.

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## AliGW

In a private message to me about moderation you openly admitted to not having read our rules yet (despite this being a requirement on joining). I have sent you a link to them in my reply, and here it is again for your convenience: https://www.excelforum.com/forum-rul...rum-rules.html

The rules were simplified in September 2018: a lot of work went into getting them simply worded and short so that new members would be able to read them quickly and easily, so I am not quite sure what has prevented you from "getting through them yet", as you stated in your PM to me.

Having reviewed the issues you have raised openly here and privately with me, I do not agree that you or anyone has been unfairly treated. You have just joined the forum and have made only three posts here and you are already complaining: I would suggest that you perhaps find another forum that better suits you, as it seems this one and the way it is run (and will continue to be run) does not.

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## espressonator

I suggest that you add a rule that states "Go away, if you want to discuss rules." You just applied it to me.

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## AliGW

Perhaps you should consider the way you are presenting yourself. You have just joined and have already criticised the forum, its rules and those responsible for implementing those rules. This is not a great first impression. Perhaps you should have considered observing for a little longer before wanting to discuss the rules you don't even have time to read (you said this in your PM to me).

It would seem, to the untrained eye, that you are just here to cause trouble. Sorry, but this is the impression you are giving.

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## macropod

espressonator: Get a life!

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## Pepe Le Mokko

Thanks Paul, I never had heard or read that one before ! Learning every day  :Smilie:

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## Roel Jongman

I must say I understand espressonator comment. The moderation style here is very strickt, it is not about hosting a community, welcoming new members and showing them the workaround for bugs. For my taste it is to much about policing the commutity with reply bans (no answers until fixed) for small infractions 
There are days when I look at the what's new list of topics and I see 1/3 of the topics have a last reply by a moderator and when I open they all say "Fix something and no answers allowed untul fixed" that takes the fun out of reading and helping.. The result for me is  now when I see a topic with only 1 or 2 replies and the last poster is a moderator (you get to know the names after a while) I just skip the topic because there is a big chance it will be an infraction to react.. 

To put it in Short: For my taste the moderation style (including expert members using canned replies sometimes with added annoyed comments) could be a lot more about hosting a community rather then "policing" the community.. 

The yellow banner is an example, it is partly a result of an ugly bug where a paperclip button not working. But since the owner of the site does not fix the problem now there is a banner saying what to do that is very in your face. I often read on a mobile screen and 2/3 of my screen is filled with a permanent banner telling me what to do. I can just see 2 new topics in the whats new page.. 
I understand how it came about, but it is not very welcoming to new commers (that also see several other banners when they join) and very in your face when read from smaller screens.
Instead of defending why it is there you can also take the feedback and understand that the instuctions is not as clear to newcommers as it is to expert members.. who done it hundreds of times..

We as a community could show a lot more consideration to new members and also accept that some issues will always keep popping up no matter if you told people 10 times or 1 miljon times to add a file, it will be forgotten same as titles it is not an essay for school.. you are focused on the problem you have and not on having a catchy or "google friendly" title.. 

On Excelforum it has become ok to take out your frustrations of repeated mistakes on new members who have no idea what they have done wrong or do not understand the instructions the first time. The RTFM response is has become he norm and if someone dares to say something about not feeling to welcome they should get a life!

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## AliGW

> On Excelforum it has become ok to take out your frustrations of repeated mistakes on new members who have no idea what they have done wrong or do not understand the instructions the first time.



Roel - this is absolutely not the case. New members have rules pointed out, but we amend the issue for them to show them what we mean (i.e. for a new member, we amend the thread title ourselves, add code tags or add cross-post links as appropriate).

The rules as they stand now are the shortest, clearest and simplest I have seen on any forum. We can all have (and are entitled to) our opinions about the moderation style, however, what one should never, ever do is join a club and then immediately say, "Right, now I'm here, let's sort out your rules and the way you operate". That is simply not acceptable, in my view.

As for the yellow banner: like it or loathe it, it has meant that more newcomers have managed to attach a file without having to ask for guidance, and that can only be good as it speeds things up for all of us. Whether the banner should be dismiss-able has been discussed and the consensus, amongst admins and mods, was that it should not be (lots of good reasons that I am not going to go into here).

Moderating a forum is not easy: what most of you don't ever get to see are the long discussions and debates we have behind the scenes. What I can tell you is this: we always have the user at the heart of any conversation and we aim for complete consistency (i.e. we all sing from the same songsheet). What you also don't see are the literally hundreds of notes of thanks we get via the rep system: the overwhelming sentiment is positive. It would be impossible to run a place like this without getting the odd complaint, but complaints are few.

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## Glenn Kennedy

I, too have some sympathy for the OP.  I don't like the agreed canned replies and (try to) avoid their use them, unless (e.g.) I'm just about to leave to "get a life" myself.  They're too starchy, too formal and sometimes used in succession -   "Change the title" followed by "Supply an attachment".

Regarding the yellow banner, I really like it. It is instantly visible (perhaps very visible) on a phone.  BUT it is a visual guide to get people to attach a sample from the start.  I struggle with wordy explanantions, even those written by native English speakers.  They know what they're describing.  I don't.  I need a sheet.  So I have been vocal in my support for the banner, and for keeping it non-dismissable.

In a discussion on the Mods forum a day or two ago, I commented that maybe they shouldn't have allowed an Irishman to join the Mod team, as we're all natural-born rebels.  I think it might be time for me to step down from that role.

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## espressonator

> Perhaps you should consider the way you are presenting yourself. You have just joined and have already criticised the forum, its rules and those responsible for implementing those rules. This is not a great first impression. Perhaps you should have considered observing for a little longer before wanting to discuss the rules you don't even have time to read (you said this in your PM to me).
> 
> It would seem, to the untrained eye, that you are just here to cause trouble. Sorry, but this is the impression you are giving.



You do not have an untrained eye, but by saying this, you are suggesting that you do.  That is what is giving me the impression that I need to respond in kind.  By definition, I, being a newnbie, have, for this forum , an "untrained eye", so when your responses are repleat with accusatory remarks, why are you surprised that I react this way?

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## AliGW

So why don't you just take five minutes to read the rules? Also, please re-read the yellow banner - it is not about posting links, it is about attaching a workbook (which anybody, even with one post, is allowed to do).

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## FDibbins

OK people, lets calm things down a bit please.

1.  Every member is entitled to question the forum rules, without fear of reprisals or being told to "shut up and sit down" - period!!  That does not mean they will necessarily be changed just to suite 1 or 2 (or a small group of) members who disagree with them.  However, there is a good way and a bad way about doing pretty much everything.

I was not privy to an PM's regarding this, but it it was indeed a case of the rules not even being read in the 1st place, before criticizing them, then I would suggest that would be a good 1st step to take (read them, it is, after all, a condition of membership here)

2.  You have all, Im sure, heard the expression - you cant please all the people all the time? This will ALWAYS apply to any group and our forum is no exception.  Just try and keep in mind that tolerance, patience understanding should be the order of the day - try and put yourself in the other person's shoes and ask yourself how you would react if they said something like (you were going to say) that to you.

3.  The potential always exists, in any written medium, for us all read the same thing differently, and to interpret a given message colored by our own experiences, perceptions, expectations and backgrounds.  That doesnt mean the message was wrong, it just means that the message - or it's intent - was not clearly understood, and perhaps, in some cases, needs to be expressed in a different manner to get the intent across.

4.  Moderating a forum like this is sometimes not easy, we are all people, and we all have good days and bad days.  It is sometimes advisable to just take a step back, breath a few times, then come back and try again - this applies to bot moderators as well as regular members.  Heated arguments generally dont end well in places like this  :Frown: 

5.  All forums have their rules (some strict, others less so), and it can take a while for new members to become accustomed to how a particular forum operates.  As admins, mods, gurus and other seniors, it is our responsibility to help shepherd new members though this initiation period - we have all been there at some time or another - and to help them become fully functioning, contributing members here, so lets all not loose site of that fact.

6.  I will also add that is any member - ANY member - has a concern regarding a moderator, a moderation or a rule, they are more than welcome to PM me with that concern, and I will do my best to address the matter 1 way or another.

OK, rant over lol, hope that helps some?

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## espressonator

> espressonator: Get a life!



Thank you so much for your understanding and patience.

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## espressonator

> Thanks Paul, I never had heard or read that one before ! Learning every day



May I know who you mean by "Paul"?I don't see that username here.

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## Glenn Kennedy

Paul, aka macropod at Post 5, I think.

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## espressonator

> As for the yellow banner: like it or loathe it, it has meant that more newcomers have managed to attach a file without having to ask for guidance, and that can only be good as it speeds things up for all of us. Whether the banner should be dismiss-able has been discussed and the consensus, amongst admins and mods, was that it should not be (lots of good reasons that I am not going to go into here).



I had what seemed to be 3 yellow banners at the top today while reading your reply to Roel.  I clicked a red "x" next to the most annoying one that advertises the Commercial Services Forum:  
"To get replies by our experts at nominal charges, follow this link to buy points and post your thread in our Commercial Services forum! Here is the FAQ for this forum."
It went away.  This seems to mean that that particular thing that seems to be a "yellow banner" is dismissable, so this is confusing.  It's confusing because it means that if you are correct that the (one and only?) yellow banner is not dismissable, but if there are two other dismissable things that look very much like "yellow banners", but are dismissable, then which one of the three is a "real yellow banner"?  

I hope that no users are color blind, as this entire discussion would only become meaningful to them after I quoted the text in one such "yellow banner".

By the way, when I say that the top yellow banner that I dismissed is "the most annoying one", I do NOT mean that I don't want that banner to appear.  I merely think that the word "this" should be replaced with the word "that" in that particular banner, because when I was looking for the FAQs for THIS (Excel Help) forum, I did not immediately find the link to the FAQs, because I clicked on the link in the top yellow banner.   This was really confusing and disconcerting, and I imagine several other newbies to forums styled as this one is have had the same kind of difficulty and annoyance.

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## AliGW

The banner regarding posting a workbook is deliberately not dismissable (I believe I've mentioned this already). I am not going to get into a long discussion about why; suffice it to say that the moderation and administration team decided by consensus that it should be that way. One of the most frequently asked questions is how to attach a workbook.

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## Glenn Kennedy

I did suggest changing the colour after someone else commented about the other yellow banner(s), but the suggestion got forgotten about, somewhere along the line.

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## espressonator

> So why don't you just take five minutes to read the rules? Also, please re-read the yellow banner - it is not about posting links, it is about attaching a workbook (which anybody, even with one post, is allowed to do).



As I pointed out above, there is not just one banner.    While that is not, in and of itself, a bad thing, it is confusing to see a comment that ONLY says "read the yellow banner", and then to read a yellow banner that says "To get replies by our experts at nominal charges, follow this link to buy points and post your thread in our Commercial Services forum! Here is the FAQ for this forum."  What I don't understand is why you think that any newbie would think that the Commercial Forum has anything to do with posting files.

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## espressonator

> I did suggest changing the colour after someone else commented about the other yellow banner(s), but the suggestion got forgotten about, somewhere along the line.



I hope that that recommendation gets revisited and implemented.

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## espressonator

> The banner regarding posting a workbook is deliberately not dismissable (I believe I've mentioned this already). I am not going to get into a long discussion about why; suffice it to say that the moderation and administration team decided by consensus that it should be that way. One of the most frequently asked questions is how to attach a workbook.



I do not question the reason why it is not dismissable.  I only question(ed) the cryptic way in which it was (is) referenced, as the reference is made as if it is the ONLY yellow banner.  Whether I think it should be dismissable could be a discussion for another day or another thread.  I did not start this thread for that purpose.

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## AliGW

I will concede that there can be up to three yellow banners for a newbie to negotiate - you are quite right about that. However, only one of them (the one they can't dismiss, either on purpose or accidentally) talks about attaching a workbook. With respect, the one about the Commercial Services section does not, unless I have missed something, mention attachments at all.

Anyway, I think we've flogged this particular horse for long enough now, don't you? Time to get on with the festive season. Let's call time on this and move forward with seasonal merriment.  :Smilie:

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## AliGW

> I hope that that recommendation gets revisited and implemented.



Good idea, however it won't help anyone who is colour blind ...  :Wink:

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## AliGW

> I only question(ed) the cryptic way in which it was (is) referenced ...



PS I never have understood why this vexed you so much or why you felt the need to intervene in a thread where the person to whom the comment was addressed had clearly understood the message and provided an attached workbook in response. But, hey ho!  :Smilie:

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## espressonator

> I will concede that there can be up to three yellow banners for a newbie to negotiate - you are quite right about that. However, only one of them (the one they can't dismiss, either on purpose or accidentally) talks about attaching a workbook. With respect, the one about the Commercial Services section does not, unless I have missed something, mention attachments at all.
> 
> Anyway, I think we've flogged this particular horse for long enough now, don't you? Time to get on with the festive season. Let's call time on this and move forward with seasonal merriment.



You're right that the top banner (which I dismissed) does not mention attachments at all, and while that was not my point, I think your suggestion that we get on with the festive season sounds like a good plan.  :Smilie: 

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

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## AliGW

Merry Christmas to you, too. I am sorry we got off on a bad footing, but I am sure we can agree to put it behind us. Welcome to the forum!

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## Glenn Kennedy

You said:

"it is confusing to see a comment that ONLY says "read the yellow banner", and then to read a yellow banner that says "To get replies by our expe....."

I agree entirely. A "RTFM" response, IMHO.  But you can't please them all.  I've just been given a verbal lashing by someone I was trying to help elsewhere on the Forum.

It's not worth the pay we get (if only...).

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## FDibbins

I have tried - unsuccessfully- to change the color, so I have added some extra text at the front to try and help explain it better.

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## espressonator

I don't see it at all now...  Is dismissal permanent?  Since I dismissed that particular banner, I have closed tabs and opened new tabs, and in this  thread, I have not noticed a reappearance of that one dismissed banner.  While I am the person who pointed out that I find that particular banner confusing, I did not expect dismissal of it to be permanent...

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## AliGW

The banner about attachments is not dismissable - are you saying you cannot see it any longer? Dismissal is permanent for banners that can be dismissed unless you disallow cookies in your browser, I think.

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## Glenn Kennedy

I can still see the attachments banner, and can confirm that it's non-dismissable.  Once you dismiss a dismissable banner it stays gone, I think.  Certainly I never see the commercial services one.

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## espressonator

Thank you for your reply, Ali. No, I of course did not dismiss the banner about attachments.  I dismissed the banner about the Commercial forum.  I do not mind it being there; I had suggested that it be reworded slightly, and now that Ford has done something to change it, I feel some obligation to give feedback on modifications he made that may alleviate my previously voiced concerns.  However, since I dismissed it, it does not appear, and so I cannot do so.  

Merry Christmas!

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## AliGW

I don't think Ford's done anything to that banner, but can't be sure as I cannot see it (I dismissed it long ago). I think if you log out, clear cookies for this site and then log in again you may see its return.

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## espressonator

I see now what you mean.  I thought he meant to say that he tried to change the color of the dismissable banner. Now that I know that he meant the one about attachments, I see that the wording is different, and I think that will help newbies....  Another thing that may help is to reorder them so that the most important one comes first.  

Happy Holidays!

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## AliGW

If he can re-order them and think it worthwhile, I am sure he'll give it a go when he sees this.

By the way, there is no need to quote the post immediately before your own - please get into the habit of using the quick reply option.

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## espressonator

> I have tried - unsuccessfully- to change the color, so I have added some extra text at the front to try and help explain it better.



I see what you did, Ford. I guess the attachments banner now pulls in the username?  That's fabulous!  Of course, if everyone is seeing my username because it's hard coded into the banner, then I would not think that that is quite so fabulous, lol.   :Smilie: 



Happy Holidays!!

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## espressonator

Ok.  Will do.  Thanks Ali.

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## AliGW

Thanks.

The attachment banner has always shown the user name, by the way - that's not new. I see mine, not yours.  :Smilie:

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## espressonator

LOL. I don't know why I did not realize that...

Cheers!!

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## AliGW

We can create one for you, if you like - you could be Newbie of the Month!!!  :Wink:

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## espressonator

LOL, not exactly necessary.

Have a great day!

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## espressonator

Hmmmm....  Now, the banner about cross-posting is gone and I don't recall dismissing it. Maybe I'm getting old or just losing my memory...

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## AliGW

You must have dismissed it, too.

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## Olly

My teacup is stormy...

Some of you should try StackOverflow. Excelforum is like a laid back lounge with a welcoming committee, by comparison. 

For those of us who spend more time answering than asking, it's great, though - so much easier to cut to the chase of the technical issue.

It's all good...  :Cool:

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## FDibbins

That particular banner - how to upload files - is not dismiss-able, so please let me know if you no longer see it?

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## ubludkisranye

I was interested to see this topic.
As a new user, I like this forum and the rules/banners are pretty clear

But there are a few points which struck me.

(1)I was confused by non-moderators issuing moderation notes, including instructions for no further posts. 

(2) it's too easy to fall foul of rule #6. Do not post to threads where a moderator is addressing a rule violation.
For as start, we can go back to #1 where it's not a moderator who has given the instruction.
But it's also very easy to find that by the time you post a response several other responses have already been made, one of which might be a moderation comment and so you appear to have violated the rule when in fact this was entirely unintentional. Plus there is technically no rule to say you can't reply to a post which breaks rules prior to moderation.

(3) the moderators have a difficult job and there are ineveitably timewasters and troubemakers. That said, most people post for help here as a last resort, have a complicated issue and might not necessarily have English as their first language. I have seen some posts where the OP seems to have been given a hard time because the respondent didn't understand the query.
Fair enough to suggest providing more info but if they don't I think it's best to take the attitude of "if you can't help, don't reply" rather than to say "I'm done" or "it doesn't seem like there's much interest" or something similar, which neither helps with the query or gains additional info


In the case of this particular incident:
I can see how Espressionator's interjection in the thread was seemingly out of place, but since the issue had been resolved, it could have been ignored and a response from a non-moderator just escalated things.
Also, since I understand that "Guru" status is an "honored status", it seems wholly inappropriate for responses such as "get a life" to be submitted by members with such status, who should afterall be accountable to a higher standard.

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## Glenn Kennedy

1.  Agree entirely.  I will initiate a discussion about this tomorrow amongst the Mods.

2.  Agree, up to a point.  I would expect a lenient approach to be taken if time time intervals between a Mod   requirement and a "non-compliant" post are short.  I rarely refresh the page before posting.

3.  Agree.  I do try to make extreme allowances for obviously non native English speakers.. but I'll admit to having a slightly fiery temperament and I do occasionally get het up and grumpy when, despite repeated requests, the requirement is still opaque.  But doesn't everyone...

Bottom line, we try to help. Often posters forget that we are totally unfamiliar with their sheets and are not prepared to spend ages trying to figure out what they want from incoherent or non-existent explanations.  

Hehehe.  The fiery temperament shows itself there, methinks.

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## AliGW

I don't think that it's unreasonable to stop trying to help someone if you've gone round in circles with them and still aren't getting the clarity you need to be able to help. You can lead a horse to water ...





> "it doesn't seem like there's much interest"



This is an out-of-context soundbyte: I've never seen this sort of thing, nor said it myself, without clarifying why I'm pointing it out (i.e. there must be something in the explanation that is lacking, otherwise someone would have started to help by now). I will then go on to suggest that the OP think about rephrasing their question.

This is by far and away the busiest and most productive of the handful of Excel-related fora I frequent, so we must be doing something right.  :Smilie:

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## TMS

@ ubludkisranye



> (1)I was confused by non-moderators issuing moderation notes, including instructions for no further posts.



Senior members, particularly Forum Gurus, are expected to help police the rules. Some do that more strictly than others, some do it not at all.  But then Ive seen Moderators answer questions and not comment on broken rules.    I tend to take the middle ground: I answer the question, if I can. I then use the canned reply(ies) for the rule(s) infringed BUT I remove the "no further replies" bit as I don't feel it is appropriate for me to say that as I am not a Moderator.

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## Alf

> Senior members,



Senior member is an expression I've asked for an explanation of earlier but not got an explanation of. How and when do one become a senior member? Age and or time as a forum member or a forum level i.e. somewhere between registered user and forum expert?

Alf

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## AliGW

Anything from forum expert and above, since, as it stands, forum experts and above are those who can access the canned replies.

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## TMS

See the FAQs: 





> Different Levels
> This is the current level structure being followed - 
> - Registered User: New users
> - Forum Contributor: 60 days and 100 posts
> - Valued Forum Contributor : 120 days registered and 300 posts and 150 reputation points
> - Forum Expert: 360 days registered, 1200 posts and 600 reputation points
> - Forum Guru: Promoted by voting from Forum Expert level
> - Forum Moderator: Promoted from Forum Guru or Forum Expert level
> - Forum Administrator: Promoted from Forum Moderator level

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## Alf

Thanks Ali, just what I wanted to know.

Alf

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## jolivanes

Until a few days ago the only part I ever visisted was the Excel Forum VBA part.
I then read in one of the Posts about the Water Cooler part which led me to post there.
Yesterday I read with interest Ford's heart attack saga. I sincerely hope your doing better Ford.
https://www.excelforum.com/the-water...r-a-while.html

Glenn Kennedy.
You mentioned something about retiring. Please don't. I don't know much about you but your picture shows that you could be a twin brother of a colleague I worked with.
He is a smart man. He did not get married until both his farm in Ireland and his Ferrari were paid for. Mind you, by that time he was close to 65 years old. Not that he missed anything that married people have the privilige of enjoying regularly, at least most of them. Do you measure up to him?


https://www.excelforum.com/suggestio...oderators.html
Post #7
Roel Jongemans.
"For my taste it is to much about policing the commutity with reply bans (no answers until fixed) for small infractions."
I guess I am not the only one.

I very seldom see anything done about the annoying habit of people quoting whole posts. 
There are sometimes remarks to not quote the previous post!
I know one, guru or ninja from japan, frequently tells people to not do that. I was in that habit also but quit because I am not allowed to do that and rightly so.


Post #12
FDibbins
Just try and keep in mind that tolerance, patience understanding should be the order of the day 
I assume that counts for both sides, but it is contradictory to my experience.

I guess I'll just look at Posts where one particular person's name does not show up because 90 percent of the time it'll be a canned remark not to reply until the perceived problem has been rectified.
In line with Roel Jongemans Post #7
There are days when I look at the what's new list of topics and I see 1/3 of the topics have a last reply by a moderator and when I open they all say "Fix something and no answers allowed untul fixed"

Just my opinion.

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## AliGW

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, however ...





> I very seldom see anything done about the annoying habit of people quoting whole posts.



*I tackle it all the time* - you will find MANY threads where I have edited unnecessary quotes out of posts and left a moderation note asking them not to do it. ONLY if it persists post after post will I actually post the canned message within the thread itself.





> I guess I'll just look at Posts where one particular person's name does not show up because 90 percent of the time it'll be a canned remark not to reply until the perceived problem has been rectified.



You'll find that this one person's name shows up an awful lot offering help and providing solutions - just as much, in fact, as any other moderator, which is probably why that person is the second highest rep earner after Glenn on these forums. That person receives many messages of thanks for solutions every day (and once in a while a bit of negativity). So if you choose to ignore that person's posts, you'll be missing out on a lot of good stuff, too.  :Wink: 

Just my opinion.  :Smilie:

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## FlameRetired

> .......
> 
> Just my opinion.



 :Cool: Mine too. :Wink:

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## alansidman

> Just my opinion.



I agree and support your statements.

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## jolivanes

Re: "I agree and support your statements." by alansidman

Thanks for your support Alan.  :Smilie:

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## alansidman

Just to be clear.  My comments were in support of Ali.  I do recognize your right to express your feelings and opinion as do I. When I did a copy and paste, it did not pick up the smiley face.  Here to be sure is the smily face.   :Smilie:

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## FDibbins

> 1. Yesterday I read with interest Ford's heart attack saga. I sincerely hope your doing better Ford.
> https://www.excelforum.com/the-water...r-a-while.html
> 
> 2. 
> Post #12
> FDibbins
> Just try and keep in mind that tolerance, patience understanding should be the order of the day 
> I assume that counts for both sides, but it is contradictory to my experience.



1.  Yes thanks, all back to normal...if you could have call me "normal" before that scary event (I am seldom accused of being "normal", and Im OK with that)

2.  Yes it should be applied from both sides - and I need to know about cases where it is not - and I am not sure what is contradictory in that statement?

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## jolivanes

Hi Alan.
I knew that and did not expect different. After all both of you are moderators. We lack a "tongue in cheek" one so for my first time ever, I used an emoji (Is that what they're called).
Never mind my directness. I am not cut of the political correctness cloth.

From: H S Truman
Political Correctness is a doctrine, recently fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and promoted by a sick mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of sh*t by the clean end!

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## ubludkisranye

Just reported post #9 in this link

https://www.excelforum.com/excel-pro...using-vba.html





> Sorry - I don't have time for shifting goalposts, so I'm out.
> 
> Don't expect your helpers to fill the gaps in your provision of data!!!



Petulant attitude from moderator.

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## FDibbins

> Just reported post #9 in this link
> ....
> Petulant attitude from moderator.



I disagree.  While the response may arguably have been worded differently, the reason behind it is definitely justified.  We frequently see posts asking for help - given a certain set of data - only to late find that the given data in fact does not cover many of the possible eventualities.  

None of us here are mind readers, we can only base our replies/suggestions on the data provided.  We generally have no clue what you have, what you need to do, or how you need to have the answers structured...if you dont give us the relevant info, we cant give you everything you want  :EEK!:

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## ubludkisranye

At least you admit that the post could have been worded differently - ie rude. The fact is that, being from a moderator, it *should* have been worded differently as they *should* be held to higher standards.

There wasn't anything ambiguous in the original post, it didn't seem that a whole lot of data provision was actually required and no infringement of the Rules took place, so the remarks themselves added nothing useful other than to force the op into a defensive response.

The real reason behind the attitude seems to be frustration that the response provided didn't serve the purpose, but as a formula in the VBA section that's not unexpected.

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## AliGW

I could have worded it differently, and yes, I was frustrated. I'm human, but I am also the most active member here by some considerable distance.

52759 posts since joining in 2013 and over 18000 positive reputation points (that's members saying thanks for my solving or helping to solve their issues) - I'm not getting it wrong very often, although I can count on you to pick me up on the moments when I do.  :Wink:

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## mehmetcik

Ali.

Thanks for all your Sterling work.  

I have learnt a lot from you over the years and hope to continue to do so for many years to come.

Obviously someone has forgotten that no-one gets paid to be here.

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## AliGW

Thank you for your comment - appreciated. The member ubludkisranye is quite within their rights to criticise, even though doing so makes up roughly 10% of their total contributions here whereas my 'petulant' moments represent less than 0.1% of mine (a generous estimate). Not an excuse, I know, but hey, ho!  :Smilie:

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## Pete_UK

Regarding the unnecessary quoting of the previous Post, many people will access the forum through mobile phones nowadays, and I did this for the first time while in France a few weeks ago as I didn't have my tablet with me. You do not see the "Reply" and "Reply with quote" options - just "Reply", and this automatically quotes the Post you are replying to. So we shouldn't be too quick to condemn someone for doing this, when they don't have the choice.

Pete

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## AliGW

I agree, Pete, and I will amend posts and leave an edit note several times before actually posting an admin note in the thread, so it's never an immediate admin note from me. I don't ever 'condemn' anyone for doing it, either - I merely ask them not to and explain how and why. The quotation can still be edited out of replies, even if Reply with Quote is the only option. There are no warnings or infractions given for this, by the way (at least not by me).

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## ubludkisranye

> Obviously someone has forgotten that no-one gets paid to be here.



The position of moderator incurs certain expectations and responsibilities, so the question of payment is not relevant.





> I could have worded it differently, and yes, I was frustrated. I'm human, but I am also the most active member here by some considerable distance.



Your activity cannot be taken into account as this is no doubt in part dictated by your personal circumstances. 0.1% of 52000 posts is still 5,200 and many of your posts are of an admin nature. Nevertheless, the quantity of posts is not an excuse for allowing frustration to influence your wordage, especially as you've been active here for some considerable time. If fact, as a prolific user and "influencer" on this forum, you should be doubly aware of the effect of your responses.
You have to remember that there are people on the end of these posts: They might be dyslexic, they might not speak English as a first language, but they're all struggling and seeking help, so you need to cut them some slack. Also keep in mind that while they might be asking for help with Excel, this doesn't mean that they aren't intelligent or highly specialised in other areas.
If you're frustrated or your answer hasn't worked, just drop out silently and be considerate and polite in reminding people of the rules.

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## TMS

> 0.1% of 52000 posts is still 5,200



Mmmm, actually, I think that might be 52. Checked in Excel  :Wink:

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## ubludkisranye

Probably. The semantics don't really matter.
The point remains valid and intact.

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## TMS

> Probably. The semantics don't really matter.
> The point remains valid and intact.



Semantics = mathematics? Valid (?) but exaggerated  :Smilie:

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## ubludkisranye

Indeed. Thank you for your insight.
For clarity, if you've been a member for nearly 10 years, are a moderator, have posted over 50 thousand posts, you ought to be able to reign in your frustration against a user who has posted < 100 replies in a section about which you know nothing about.

 :Smilie:

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## alansidman

@ubludkisranye

You've made your point.  Look at my Avatar.  That is what I see when I read your posts about Ali.  Give it up.  Time to move on.

Alan

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