# Off Topic > The Water Cooler >  >  Shades of grey

## Andrew-R

I was just basking in the glory of my old reputation points on the user CP when I noticed that while most of my reps have a little green square to the left of them the last 3 I've received have a grey square alongside them (or 'gray' if you're reading this in American).

Is there any special reason for this?  I couldn't find anything in the FAQ about it, and a forum search also failed to enlighten me.

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## royUK

This is usually because the person giving the rep is a new member & has no reputation power

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## Andrew-R

Ah, so it's a hint not to spend time answering questions from worthless newbies and, instead, just help out NBVC with his many, many queries (although if he asks how VLOOKUP works one more time I'm going to scream)  :Smilie:

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## john55

Andrew, welcome to my/our club! )))

well, I do not want to be misinterpreted, but I think it's not fair to rcv "grey" especially if it comes from a user who posts for the first time/or has no reputation power! we are talking about "help"!

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## Fotis1991

John, I hope to accept me in the club ..

Off course i angree with Andrew's words..

http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...lem-issue.html

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## NBVC

> This is usually because the person giving the rep is a new member & has no reputation power



I think there is something for to the fact that the forum is currently screwed up... I too have received only grey reputation as of yesterday...  not only from members with no rep power...

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## royUK

I received one rep yesterday which was grey, the OP had two posts. Probably is due to the fact that the Forum is totally unreliable though.

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## NBVC

Actually, for me it seems to have started on Jan 20th... that is when I started getting greys from all the "new members".... that wasn't always the case or I would have hundreds of grey icons prior to that date.

Vai, oh Vai, where fore art thou, Vai?

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## Fotis1991

@NBVC & roy.

And for both of you are very honorable and congratulations on this, to confirm that those who wrote all of us is a reality and not just a peculiarity us ...

Thanks. :Smilie:

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## john55

Dear guests,

this is happy hour! who wants something to drink?! we have mojito only!  :Wink:

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## Fotis1991

@NBVC

As i told in the morning..

http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...lem-issue.html

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## TMS

And another new member for the grey (gray) club.

I reported this a few days ago (01-20-2012, 10:10 PM):






> *Re: Report issues here - AND NOTHING ELSE, PLEASE!* 
> 
> OK, if we're not going for the buy-out, back on topic ...
> 
> Has something gone wrong with the rep system? Or am I just unlucky? Or do you get to a point where you no longer accrue rep points?
> 
> The last two reps I have had have had little grey boxes, as opposed to green or worse, red. So, I'm getting thank-yous via the rep system (which is nice) but no points.
> 
> And what do points make? A happy bunny!
> ...




However, I got fobbed off (sorry RoyUK/Pike) ... advised that it was due to rep power.  I accepted that at face value though I'd not seen it once in 18 months.

I suspect it has to be something to do with the upgrade.

Regards, TMS

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## OnErrorGoto0

I would still suggest it is due to rep power, but I suspect the 'upgrade' is responsible for the newer users having zero rep power. You can presumably verify this yourself by viewing one of the grey users in your Moderator control panel and checking the rep power shown in their profile. If it is *not* 0, then the forum is in even worse shape than suspected...

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## NBVC

Maybe I don't have enough priviliges but everyone I check has 0 Rep Power, even other Mods!  It seems I can only see my own Rep Power.

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## OnErrorGoto0

Oh - perhaps RoyUK can test it?

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## Paul

I confirm what NBVC is seeing in the Mod CP.  I can see everyone's Reputation Level, but only my Reputation Power - which I assume is what affects how many Rep Points are awarded when I "tip someone's scales" as the old saying went.  (Not sure what to use now.. "Spin someone's star"?  "Assault someone's asterisk"?  eh.)

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## royUK

TM Shucks

It seems that we aren't the only ones fobbing off about rep power





> User Reputation 
> This section contains many settings that dictate how users of your forum are able to affect each other's reputation score.
> Enable User Reputation system
> This is the global switch for the reputation system. If you disable this, users will not be able to rate each other nor will their scores be visible.
> Default Reputation
> This is the reputation score that new users will start out with.
> Number of Reputation Levels to Display
> When a user enters their User CP, they will see a list of their most recent reputation ratings. This affects how many of the latest ratings to display.
> Administrator's Reputation Power
> ...

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## Vaibhav

I have done some research at my end too and i confirm what Roy has posted above.  Grey reps do exist.

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## TMS

@RoyUK: thanks. That makes interesting reading.  I had no idea it could, or needed to be, so complex.

I'm guessing then, that the upgrade introduced some rep factors that weren't previously implemented.

I'm also guessing that this wasn't intentional.

Regards, TMS

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## Paul

In the <insert # here> years since the rep system was started, I've probably only received a handful of grey rep indicators (less than 5).  With the number of reports of grey reps this week, my guess is a setting got changed so that new forum users don't generate any points when they click the star for a user (at least until they reach some threshold).

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## Andrew-R

I just got a +rep from Fotis1991 and I can confirm that it's shining bright green, so it does just seem to be rep from new posters.

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## Kyle123

I came to the same conclusion, I've had green and grey rep over the last couple of days, the grey rep is from posters with only one post it seems..

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## john55

> ...grey rep over the last couple of days, the grey rep is from posters with only one post it seems..



I think it's not fair at all!

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## teylyn

I think this has to do with the forum lagging behind the actual status of posters, with regards to post count. This reflects on rep power and other things.

I've just dealt with a thread from an OP with just 2 posts. The standard procedure for any mod is to check the other post, to see if it's a noob who may have posted a duplicate. In this case, the OP had been registered for a few months and posted the first thread a few months ago. 

When looking at the view for "all forum posts" by this member, the view only listed one (1, -- *one* --) post. 

In the past, all posts from a member would be listed up to the last second.

I believe that something is mucked up in the indexing of the forum. The actual post count and the post count of some internal lookups and routines are not in sync. Something is lagging behind. The post count of a member is up to date, but the view of the actual posts is not looking at the same source.

Hence, I do not see *all* posts of a member.
Hence, when that member gives rep, the rep system does not see *all* posts of the member. The member may have posted a few questions, but that rep lookup still receives that the member has 0 posts -- so no rep power.

It used to be that only members with 0 posts would produce grey (= no points) reps.
Now it seems that even members with more than 1 post still produce grey reps, if their first posts were submitted very recently. 

This is clearly a disconnect between the forum's inner records.

I'm sure that Vai's "technical" team will be able to sort it out in a year or two. 

I'm also sure that Simon could fix it within an hour.

cheers,

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## TMS

@Vai: please fix the grey rep count problem.  It shouldn't be that difficult and shouldn't have any major impact on other key functionality.

I enjoy the challenge of resolving problems and the gratitude of the people I help ... but I also enjoy the recognition.

I have continued to persevere through your difficult times but I'm going to stop posting in this forum until this is resolved.

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## Fotis1991

I  confirm for one more time, that the system is currently screwed up.......

Today,i received 7 reb*.  Three Grays(One of these from old member(18/02/2011) & 10 posts, and 4 Greens...!

At the end of my day(this is now), i have 5 points *less* than in the morning!!! :Confused: 

This is very very nice... :EEK!:  :Mad:

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## Kyle123

I've also dropped 9 points this afternoon  :Confused:

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## tom1977

I also lost 9 point today thanks a lot :Smilie:  hihi

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## Mordred

> @Vai: please fix the grey rep count problem.  It shouldn't be that difficult and shouldn't have any major impact on other key functionality.
> 
> I enjoy the challenge of resolving problems and the gratitude of the people I help ... but I also enjoy the recognition.
> 
> I have continued to persevere through your difficult times but I'm going to stop posting in this forum until this is resolved.



I second this!

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## Mordred

> @Vai: please fix the grey rep count problem.  It shouldn't be that difficult and shouldn't have any major impact on other key functionality.
> 
> I enjoy the challenge of resolving problems and the gratitude of the people I help ... but I also enjoy the recognition.
> 
> I have continued to persevere through your difficult times but I'm going to stop posting in this forum until this is resolved.



I second this!

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## Mordred

> @Vai: please fix the grey rep count problem.  It shouldn't be that difficult and shouldn't have any major impact on other key functionality.
> 
> I enjoy the challenge of resolving problems and the gratitude of the people I help ... but I also enjoy the recognition.
> 
> I have continued to persevere through your difficult times but I'm going to stop posting in this forum until this is resolved.



I 4th this! :Wink:

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## Kyle123

Think that should be you 4th this  :Wink:

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## john55

well, someone has taken 9 points from me! 
I'm wondering if the tech team knows something about'em....hi guys,  I want'em back!  :Wink:

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## MarvinP

Didn't I see a few days ago where someone was giving negative rep to VAL for "After The Change" thread?  Maybe he got so many neg reps he simply put a negative sign in front of them instead of using Absolute Value like he should have.

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## Vaibhav

Hey all,

The negative rep came in due to a slight change in one of the settings.  This has been restored.  All the reps have been reversed to their original value.  

Also, the grey reps have always been a part of the rep system.  Its due to rep power.

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## Mordred

3 greys in a row, how inspiring  :Smilie:

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## NBVC

> Hey all,
> 
> 
> Also, the grey reps have always been a part of the rep system.  Its due to rep power.





I am not really sure that was true.. I have very rarely seen grey (no value) icons... I should know based on my rep history...

I personally don't care one way or the other, the only good thing about the rep system to me is seeing the personal appreciative comments that come with them which are often not written in the public forum.... but I suggest to appease everyone that you alter it so that new people have at minimum a rep power of 1.

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## Mordred

Just to reiterate NBVC's comment, in my (almost) 2 years of being an active member here I have never received a grey until the downgrade (sorry, upgrade) of the site.

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## TMS

@Vai: Until 20th January, I had never seen a grey rep in a similar timescale to Mordred. I didn't know it was possible. I have now had a dozen or so.  Thanks to Simon Lloyd, I am not "out of pocket" but that's not really the point.  I have reached a position where the additional points don't make a huge difference to my status, but I still enjoy watching them mount up. However, for those contributors who are lower on the ladder, the recognition of their effort is important.

I mistakenly assumed that this could be fixed without putting the forum into a deeper crisis. Clearly, I was wrong.

I earnestly suggest that you get someone who knows what they are doing to look at this and other outstanding issues. One name springs to mind but that must be your choice.

Despite myself, I keep trying with this forum ... But patience is wearing thin.

I have nothing to threaten you with. I enjoy this forum and hence I do still keep answering the odd question.

This is just a genuine plea to get the problems sorted out ... starting with the grey rep issue ... before you destroy the good will and, as a direct consequence, the value of your investment in the forum.

Kind regards, TMS

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## MarvinP

OK,

If I'm understanding the rules of grey rep, we only can get rep points if it is given by someone with rep themselves?  Or, is it that they need to have a set number of posts before they can give positive (or negative?) rep.  If this is true then I've been missing out by giving first time posters good answers.  I should only be working on problems for people who can give some rep.  This, of course, is stupid.  I think a first time poster should be able to give positive rep.  The more posts they have the more rep power they have.  

Can someone tell me where the break points are for rep.  Is it number of posts or amount of rep a person has that triggers how much rep they can give?

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## Mordred

See here MarvinP at post 17

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## OnErrorGoto0

I believe that the defaults for vBulletin are 10 rep points for a new user and rep power of 1. However it is possible to set minimum post count and rep point levels before a user can add or remove rep from another user - perhaps that is what happened here.

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## TMS

Extract from Roy's explanation:





> The number of reputation points that a user is able to give or take is dependant on several factors, with the length they have been registered as one of them. A user's power is first initialized at 1 and then this factor and the factors that follow are used to increase it. For example if you set this to 365, every 365 days that the user has been a member of your forum, they would gain one point. So if they have been a member for five years, they would gain 5 points of power for a total of 6.



Unless I am missing something, someone, somewhere has seriously f....d up. It should start at one and increase from there.

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## JapanDave

Im just say'in,  Save Me!

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## Fotis1991

Extract from TMS answer(post#39)





> ..Until 20th January, I had never seen a grey rep in a similar timescale to Mordred. I didn't know it was possible. I have now had a dozen or so. Thanks to Simon Lloyd, I am not "out of pocket" but that's not really the point. I have reached a position where the additional points don't make a huge difference to my status, but I still enjoy watching them mount up. However, for those contributors who are lower on the ladder, the recognition of their effort is important.



Extract from MarvinP answer(post#40)





> ... I should only be working on problems for people who can give some rep. This, of course, is stupid. I think a first time poster should be able to give positive rep. The more posts they have the more rep power they have.



Given, that 70-80% of daily issues, are from new members (half of them may have entered the same day) and where they have no power reb, then with some modest calculations, contributors the same level me, for example, will have to wait for 10-15 years, to raise a decent green stairway.

Or else you expect when the guru and moderators of the  Forum will make a question, and will like us to give some reb*! Have you ever seen this???

Most of them already told to all of us, that they don’t like all these….new rules..(Because ARE news. No one knew them before 20/01/12)

Does any one understands(from the guys that decide in this forum), that this is not fair??

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## OnErrorGoto0

My personal preference: fix *everything else first*, then worry about the rep system. I would far rather be able to post properly and reliably.

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## pike

I'm thinking its time to turn the reps off
or set a limit of one point max
But  Roy can reward for extra effort or exceptional code and bouns points for exceptional function solutions.

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## royUK

The number of posts a new user needs to be able to give rep was 10, I've reset it to 1. 

I doubt this has been changed by the upgrade because I have received grey icons in the past. I do think the upgrade may have affected rep - I seem to have lost alot of rep points.

The system may need rebuilding but I can't do that

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## pike

Now before you get started typing.. Just spoken to Vai and he will provide consoling for those who can’t cope when the reps are turned off!
just MP him day or nigh and he will prompty reply
The green box addiction has spread across the globe and some countries will have replacement therapy   ê a new gold star

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## pike

except europe due to cut backs è dull small four pointer

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## JapanDave

> Given, that 70-80% of daily issues, are from new members (half of them may have entered the same day) and where they have no power reb, then with some modest calculations, contributors the same level me, for example, will have to wait for 10-15 years, to raise a decent green stairway.
> 
> Or else you expect when the guru and moderators of the  Forum will make a question, and will like us to give some reb*! Have you ever seen this???



 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## pike

no points on the star for you

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## TMS

@OnErrorGoto0: I was just suggesting fixing the rep system because it should be simple to do, get out of the way, and make a lot of people happy.

I do, however, accept that there are other things that are broken that could do with some tlc.

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## OnErrorGoto0

> because it should be simple to do, get out of the way, and make a lot of people happy.



Agreed, but then the upgrade should have been relatively straightforward to do, get out of the way and make people happy, and yet...  :Wink: 

I would far rather they put all their efforts towards a stable, functioning forum, and then worried about the 'bells and whistles' - especially as it seems to be taxing them somewhat. It is, of course, not my place to direct them though.

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## pike

just spoke to Vai and Technical issues beyond his control the rep will stay
he appoligies for this error and is doing his best and is wait for the corrrect code form Simmon

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## pike

just spoke to Vai and due to Technical issues beyond his control the rep's will stay
he communicated his apologies for this oversite and is doing his best.He is wait for the corrrect code from Simon

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## pike

update reps error is now fixed

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## pike

update new reps error reps down

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## pike

Vai has been overwhelmed with the response from Americans for free therapy. They have and floated a new derivative scheme for a zillion billion dollars financed by the Chinese and OPEC countries and they can now afford two stars ä ä



canadians  ä

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## teylyn

pike, somehow I have a feeling that the big, friendly, yellow symbols you've included in your latest posts don't show up as intended. For example, in the previous post, I see just two big letters "ä ä" -- as in a letter "a" with two dots on top. Is that what you wanted to show? If so, I don't get the joke. If not, then you may be posting symbols with a font that is not available on everybody's computer. You may want to use images instead to make sure everybody sees what you want them to see.

cheers,

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