# Off Topic > Suggestions for Improvement >  >  Improvement: update the forum rules

## romperstomper

Since it appears that a number of unwritten rules have come into force perhaps the forum rules could be updated to give people a chance not to break them. For instance, if it is in fact now against the rules to post a link to a valid solution in another forum on the basis that there is probably a similar solution somewhere here, perhaps that could be added. (before you ask, I saw a post this morning that had been deleted for that very reason)

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## arlu1201

RS, that has never been a rule.  There have been several posts on this forum which contain links to other  forums.  

Can you provide the link to the thread please?

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## romperstomper

I know that - there are a lot of things that have never been rules that seem to be applied recently, hence this thread. I'll see if I can find the post again.

Edit: it's this one. I didn't see the original post but I think I can probably guess which forum it linked to and I suspect that is why it got deleted.

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## abousetta

RS, you are right. I saw that one and I was sort of surprised (more than usual) by the cavalier attitude of deleting posts because the moderator didn't 'like it'. I have complained over and over again that the rules are either not clear, are being selectively enforced, or are made up as mods and admins see fit. Why can't we just move to a simple set of rules like:

1) Do no harm (under which you can put things like don't curse, use bad language or manners, upload workbooks with vba viruses, etc.)

2) Be clear in your post (under which the rules on title, posting a workbook, using code tags, etc. can fit)

3) Be curtious (when solution is reached mark the thread as solved and don't post in a question in anohter OP's thread, but rather link to it).

This is just off the top of my head but I don't think we need a charter or a constitution. Just a few simple rules that no one will read, but at least they are there for consultation. Right now it is just complete and utter chaos regarding how the site is moderated. It's like the wild west of forums with mods acting like Judge, Jury and Executioner.

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## Simon Lloyd

> RS, you are right. I saw that one and I was sort of surprised (more than usual) by the cavalier attitude of deleting posts because the moderator didn't 'like it'. I have complained over and over again that the rules are either not clear, are being selectively enforced, or are made up as mods and admins see fit. Why can't we just move to a simple set of rules like:
> 
> 1) Do no harm (under which you can put things like don't curse, use bad language or manners, upload workbooks with vba viruses, etc.)
> 
> 2) Be clear in your post (under which the rules on title, posting a workbook, using code tags, etc. can fit)
> 
> 3) Be curtious (when solution is reached mark the thread as solved and don't post in a question in anohter OP's thread, but rather link to it).
> 
> This is just off the top of my head but I don't think we need a charter or a constitution. Just a few simple rules that no one will read, but at least they are there for consultation. Right now it is just complete and utter chaos regarding how the site is moderated. It's like the wild west of forums with mods acting like Judge, Jury and Executioner.



Abousetta, when i was admin here the original rules were devised and voted on by all the mods, everyones opinion was taken in to account and rules got adjusted accordigly, they were first put in place to give a better experience to the users, browsers, researchers and staff, there was even a mods code of practice we devised somewhere so that ALL staff sang from the same sheet.

I agree a forum needs rules and they need enforcing, better to upset the few for the better of the many, but it's how you go about doing it and as romperstomper points out they should be viewable and transparant.

While we're at it i got told off, threads deleted or closed for discussing the rules, another unwritten rule, so maybe staff can clarify that one too! (i have asked in the past)

Regards,
Simon
www.msofficetrainers.com (site building in progress)

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## abousetta

Hi Simon,

I have no problem with rules as long as they are transparent and there is no double-standards. This is a code of conduct I try to live by whether it is during work or during play. I can't deal with anyone who makes the rules as they go along or tend to apply the rules selectively when it fits their needs. I have left several positions in the past because of issues like this. Rules are there is keep the peace, not to give some people some 'special' prevliges. I moderate on occasion but I am not a moderator. I do it because it's in everyone's best interest. If someone comes and tells me that I can't (shouldn't) then they can {here I would use foul language} because I am doing their job for them.

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## Mordred

> RS, that has never been a rule.  There have been several posts on this forum which contain links to other  forums.  
> 
> Can you provide the link to the thread please?



That has become an unwritten rule in the past couple of months so to say it has never been a rule is silly.  Can you honestly say that you have never deleted a link to say The Code Cage?  Oops, I probably shouldn't have even typed those 3 words.  I will give my own hands a good reprimand as soon as I am done typing.

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## arlu1201

Mordred,

I have not deleted an answer to a question just because the link containing the answer was pointing at code cage. I have only deleted posts / words in posts where members of this forum were instigating other users to go to code cage instead of here, which is not right, in my opinion.

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## npamcpp

Arlette, 

now, that, for sure, is not true.

Posts that linked to even a google search citing the Code Cage have been deleted.
Posts that even mention the Code Cage have been deleted.

Maybe not by you. But someone deleted them.

I've seen posts with these links and references. I've bookmarked some of these posts to revisit them later. Then, next time I look, they're gone. Poof. And that happened at least half a dozen times.

The Code Cage is definitely a sensitive subject in this here forum. Why? Links to MrExcel or OzGrid seem to be fine. Why such sensitivity about that code cage forum?

I'm new here. Fill me in.

Is there an unwritten rule "don't link to www.thecodecage.com"?

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## Simon Lloyd

> Mordred,
> 
> I have not deleted an answer to a question just because the link containing the answer was pointing at code cage.



or any forum!, the op is looking for an answer, you provide them one regardless of it being a link to another or rival site and they'll come back because you've done right by them.





> I have only deleted posts / words in posts where members of this forum were instigating other users to go to code cage instead of here, which is not right, in my opinion.



I have never directly or indirectly told anyone to join up at my forum nor have i ever asked anyone to do that for me, any actions have been of their own accord, without stirring up a huge debate i have to say Arlette that you have to understand how upset they were with the way things were(n't) handled here, they were hurt and retaliated, anyway enough said, back on topic, the rules do need clarifying, made visible and transparent, the staff then need to enforce those rules in a manner that is both consistent and fair so that there are no grey areas for anyone.

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## Mordred

If the name of the game for this forum is user count, and a user uses a link from here, then why would it matter where they go after they are here?  

@Arlu, there's no need for fibbing about deleting references to the code cage as I have seen it done many-o-many a times.  I wouldn't suspect that Paul or the other moderators still active here are doing that unless they have been asked to by either you or Vai.  

I guess you think denial is the your best retort and that may work for dumb people but I can assure you that most regulars here, past and present, are not dumb.  

 :Smilie: 





> [P]erhaps you notice how the denial is so often the preface to the justification.



 - Christopher Hitchens

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## Paul

> I'm new here. Fill me in.



My spidey-sense is tingling.

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## Paul

A tangent to this discussion has been moved to:  http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...as-it-all.html

Feel free to continue in that thread, gents (and ladies, if any).

Additional discussion of the forum rules can continue here.

 :Smilie:

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## romperstomper

so anyone care to answer? will the rules be updated? is it in fact now illegal to post a link to another forum to answer a question? if so, is it illegal to link to another site that isn't a forum? or is it just a question of which mod happens to see the post and what sort of mood they are in?

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## teylyn

Seconded.

There's no rhyme or reason as to what links to which external resources are allowed or will be arbitrarily deleted.

Face up and tell: Can we link to OzGrid? MrExcel? TheCodeCage? Microsoft TechNet? Microsoft Answers? Eileen's Lounge? Experts Exchange? Stack Exchange? VBax? Others?

Which of these are no-no, and why? Who decides?

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## Mordred

What are you doing here teylyn?  Aren't you supposed to be banned?   :Wink: 
By the way, I third this (although that probably doesn't matter).

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## arlu1201

All the mods will be discussing the rules shortly and we will come up with a revised version, if required.

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## Pepe Le Mokko

> All the mods will be discussing the rules shortly and we will come up with a revised version, if required.



If required by whom? The members , Vai, the mods?

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## Paul

As has always been the case, the rules will be determined and written/modified by the owner/admins/moderators.

Forum member input has been the basis for rules discussion and changes in the past, just as we're seeing here.  Once it has been discussed and agreed upon we'll update this thread.

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## romperstomper

OK well then here's my formal input for the little it will be worth:

I have never seen _any_ forum anywhere that does not allow links to posts in other forums. Such a policy would be small-minded, counterproductive and petty.

However, at least having it in writing would be a step in the right direction.

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## Paul

Thanks Rory.  As for the thread that got all of this started, you might be surprised to know it wasn't a link to CC.

I can't envision that we will not permit links to other forums within threads, as there is a vast amount of knowledge on the web.  My guess is what we don't want to see is people simply posting "See here:  <link to other excel forum>".

We would hope and expect our members to search within our forum for solutions. But in the off-chance one cannot be found here, and a post elsewhere is found that will directly provide a solution for the user, I certainly don't see an issue.  I'm fairly sure links to personal sites such as Contextures, Chip Pearson, Ron deBruin, Andy Pope, etc. won't be an issue as they're not competing forums. There's many times I link directly to those sites just so I don't have to re-invent the wheel to explain how to use dynamic data validation, various charts or e-mailing in VBA.

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## romperstomper

> As for the thread that got all of this started, you might be surprised to know it wasn't a link to CC.



Slightly, yes, of course, but it isn't actually relevant to my mind which forum it was, just the fact it happened.





> I can't envision that we will not permit links to other forums within threads, as there is a vast amount of knowledge on the web.  My guess is what we don't want to see is people simply posting "See here:  <link to other excel forum>".



As I said, I have never seen a similar rule elsewhere but that's your call.





> We would hope and expect our members to search within our forum for solutions. But in the off-chance one cannot be found here, and a post elsewhere is found that will directly provide a solution for the user, I certainly don't see an issue. I can't speak for others but, should I begin posting here again,   I'm fairly sure links to personal sites such as Contextures, Chip Pearson, Ron deBruin, Andy Pope, etc. won't be an issue as they're not competing forums. There's many times I link directly to those sites just so I don't have to re-invent the wheel to explain how to use dynamic data validation, various charts or e-mailing in VBA.



Again, like I said, that's your call. It smacks of desperation to me - as if pretending there are no other Excel forums out there will work.

On the other hand, it will save me time.  :Wink: 

Afterthought: I suppose by logical extension you'll have to outlaw cross-posting completely or change the rules to *forbid* providing links to the questions in other forums?

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## Mordred

For what it is worth, there have been many occasions where I would do the Googling for the user and then post a simple "See here" and it has never been an issue up until the last couple of months.

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## royUK

Several years ago the existing Mods with Simon discussed the Rules & came up with what seemed fair expectations. They were implemented & the Forum moved forward in popularity. Now because those mods have resigned it seems that some members oppose the rules so they need changing, or the Vai seems to think that a link to another Forum will lose members forever. I think it was aimed at Simon, but has been extended. Anyway, such a rule is ridiculous.

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## teylyn

Mordred, it was only a temporary ban. Even though Vai posted that he would let me back in if I emailed him to suck up, I never did that. The ban simply expired.

Back to topic: What about Ken Pulse's site? Lots of useful stuff to be had there, but he also runs a forum. Or Chandoo's place? Where will you draw the line?

Looks like the owner is getting a little paranoid that people may never return to Excelforum once they've seen other sites. Why, I wonder? Because the other sites are better? Better user interface? Better answers? Better community? 

Vai, you had it all, and you ruined it. Go on, now. take the hammers out and punish people for posting links to solutions that work. That will help!

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## abousetta

This whole topic reminds me of a classic Christmas movie (black and while... don't remember the name or actors, but anyways that's besides the point). Sanata Clause got a job working in one of the big deparment stores in New York and when a little boy sat on his lap and told him what he wanted for Christmas, he promised him that he would find it under the tree on Christmas day. The mother was furious with Saint Nick because the toy was sold out, but he told her of a store that still had the toy in stock. The store manager overheard the conversation and went on a rage about sending customers to other stores to buy items. Before he could finish, the lady comes back and tells the manager that she was so happy that she will always come back to his store before going anywhere else. From then on, this became the store policy (to catelog not only what was available at their store, but also at their competitors and to guide people whenever they couldn't find what they needed right there). 

Now that I have put you all to sleep, I can give you the moral of the story. People tend to go to where they know they will find the answers they need. If providing answers in other sites is appropriate then it's better than the alternative of not providing an answer at all. Some of the competitive sites have much more developed instructional sections.

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## Cutter

That movie is "Miracle on 34th Street":  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0039628/
Oops!

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## abousetta

Thanks Cutter... I was going for "Santa takes on corporate america" but I thought it was off. Yes, I think you're right. Miracle on 34th street sounds right. I haven't seen it since I was a kid. Classics (even though they aren't in 3D) still have something really special in them.

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## Cutter

And the fact that you came back here after going to IMDb proves your point, too.

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## martindwilson

rules what rules ?just ignore them!seems most people do any way!
but surely its better to post a link to somewhere with the full answer than re typing rehashing it your self.

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## abousetta

Actually I was too scared to click on the link for violating some unwritten rule about some unwritten rule regarding "clicking on, providing material support for, directing, promoting, or in any other way, encouraging people to leave EF".

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## NBVC

Is this Alcatraz, re-incarnated?  :EEK!:

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## Mordred

I just peered into my crystal hoodoo ball and I was told that this thread will soon be deleted.  All you bad naysayers need to be reprimanded and sent to your rooms!  How dare you question the perfection created solely by Vai and his cohort Arlette.

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