# Off Topic > The Water Cooler >  >  Please see attached file

## XOR LX

Hi all.

It’s interesting to sometimes step back from problem-solving/answering queries to have a look at what may have changed on the forum over a certain period.

One of the things I couldn't help noticing is that, recently, the proportion of threads which seem to amount to little more than an exchange of file downloads has increased considerably.

Quite often you will come across a thread in which, after an initial formulation of the problem by the OP (or sometimes not even that, but an attachment with a comment along the lines of "See attached file for details of what I require") the posts in the thread alternate between a series of attachments with no more than a "Please see attached file"-type comment and a response from the OP as to whether that solution worked or not and, if not, why.

Of course, you could argue that there is nothing whatsoever wrong with this. An OP comes to this forum looking for a solution and so, if they get that solution then they are generally going to be happy. What’s more, if that solution doesn't consist of some formula which they then have to copy, perhaps with some instructions as to in which cells and under what conditions, but instead has already been provided in an actual workbook for them, then they are most likely going to be even happier.

In fact, the possibility to upload attachments is not a feature which all Excel forums share, and so may well be the deciding factor for an OP who is trying to decide on which of those various forums they should post their question.

That said, some part of me can’t help but think that those threads which consist of little more than a series of exchanges of attachments aren't somehow missing something. And, particularly after seeing several such threads in the space of a few minutes, that they aren't also somehow making this forum a _less_ attractive place for discussion of Excel-related questions.

It’s not about laziness on my part, I assure you. I understand that I can open each and every one of those attachments quite easily, and also navigate to the necessary cells in the worksheet to view the solution being offered. But then there’s also something about those times when you open a thread and are confronted with a formula staring you in the face, perhaps one which offers something new, something unusual, or whose very elegance and simplicity is pleasing, both to the eye and to the mind, which, for me, no amount of "Please see attached file" comments can come close to matching. 

And it doesn't even have to be a particularly novel or beautiful solution. Sometimes I just want to open the thread and see the required formula solution laid out in front of me, so that I can compare it instantly to the one on which I was working, and even comment upon it. Agreed, I can get to the same point via opening the attachments, but when you have to do this for a series of sometimes four or five files just to see the corrections to previous formulas, it can be a little difficult not to lose interest.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion. This forum is designed (I presume) primarily to give solutions to Excel problems. Whether that solution comes in the form of a pasted formula or an attached workbook is a moot point.

I also understand that language versions make the pasting of formulas a more laborious and difficult process for some. Attaching a workbook gets round that issue neatly, since Excel translates the formulas into the language of whatever version is being used to open it. Fair enough.

But then there are many perfectly good Excel formula translators out there, for example:

http://en.excel-translator.de/

which I personally use whenever I post on a French site, and it really only takes a second to use.

I guess all this boils down to some sort of argument for more than a purely practical, solution-driven forum, one which perhaps appreciates that discussions over the ins and outs of a particular formula are best discussed "in-thread", and not via a series of wordless posts accompanied by an attachment. And one which perhaps also attaches some value to the aesthetic side to Excel formulas, that there is something of an appreciable nature in having a formula displayed in a post, there for whichever visitors may stumble across it at some future date.

If I’m struggling to convince you, perhaps I can finish by asking you to imagine this: what exactly would you feel about Excel Forum if _every_ post in _every_ thread was of the form:

"Please see attached file"

and nothing else?

Regards

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## Fotis1991

> Hi all.
> 
> .. I can finish by asking you to imagine this: what exactly would you feel about Excel Forum if _every_ thread in _every_ post was of the form:
> 
> "Please see attached file"
> 
> and nothing else?
> 
> Regards



i hate this. :Frown: 

Less than 10 times(in almost 13000 posts) i have used this and most of these times after 2-3 attempts to explain to Op how to use my suggested formula....

On the other hand(is this correct phrase?), as my English are not very good, many times i like to see a sample workbook from the Op. It's easier for me to uhderstand his-her goal.

This is the basic reason that i don't contribute in forums that don't allow to upload a sample workbook.

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## :) Sixthsense :)

In some cases we need to show it in excel like Pivot Solutions and when we are automating the whole workbook with new structure with a  new set of formulas.  But *NOT in all cases*.

As far as I am concerned I post the arrived formula in the post itself and if the OP is unable to incorporate it then I used to add in a sample file and attach it for OP's better understanding.

At the same time when something like Pivot Table or a new structure then I won't spend too much of time in describing it, instead _(B'cos most of the time the threads not even acknowledged by OP when we put more effort, so I wait for the OP to turn on for giving further explanation)_ I simply create it in a sample file and ask the OP to go through it.

I agree with your point, since myself also seen when members give the formula solution (1 or 2 formulas) they simply add it in OP's file and mention "Check the File" instead they can post the formula in the inner part of the post by mentioning the Cell Address/references.

When the OP post a sample file it is very much helpful in giving the solution because it will reduce our time without offering something on assumption.  But the answerer can able to avoid attaching files when there is no need (when giving formula solution).

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## XOR LX

> i hate this.
> 
> Less than 10 times(in almost 13000 posts) i have used this and most of these times after 2-3 attempts to explain to Op how to use my suggested formula....



Glad someone agrees!





> On the other hand(is this correct phrase?), as my English are not very good, many times i like to see a sample workbook from the Op. It's easier for me to uhderstand his-her goal.



Yes, of course. I was more referring to the solutions being _given back_ to the OP in this way. 





> This is the basic reason that i don't contribute in forums that don't allow to upload a sample workbook.



Ah, but my worry is that, if this tendency for threads to consist of nothing but a series of attachments becomes even more common, then some people may start to feel the exact opposite to you, and actually _prefer_ to go to forums where that is the case.

I actually saw this very point being made in defence of the _popularity_ of another Excel forum (I won't mention which  :Smilie: ) not so long ago, i.e. that it was a _good thing_ that that forum did not allow attachments, and so did not have any "empty" threads as we often see here.

I personally wouldn't go that far, since the use of attachments plays a very important and necessary part in any Excel forum, in my opinion, though you can perhaps see the point they are making, albeit a bit of an extreme one.

Thanks for your contribution!

Regards

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## XOR LX

> As far as I am concerned I post the arrived formula in the post itself and if the OP is unable to incorporate it then I used to add in a sample file and attach it for OP's better understanding.
> 
> At the same time when something like Pivot Table or a new structure then I won't spend too much of time in describing it, instead _(B'cos most of the time the threads not even acknowledged by OP when we put more effort, so I wait for the OP to turn on for giving further explanation)_ I simply create it in a sample file and ask the OP to go through it.



Agreed. That is my preferred way of doing things, though I have to admit that I rarely attach a file, being of the opinion that I can (hopefully) explain in words what the OP needs to do. However, I can understand that this approach can sometimes be a little time-consuming, and could better be resolved if I just uploaded a workbook...





> I agree with your point, since myself also seen when members give the formula solution (1 or 2 formulas) they simply add it in OP's file and mention "Check the File" instead they can post the formula in the inner part of the post by mentioning the Cell Address/references.



I personally would prefer to see this more, even if it means using a formula translator as I described. 





> When the OP post a sample file it is very much helpful in giving the solution because it will reduce our time without offering something on assumption.  But the answerer can able to avoid attaching files when there is no need (when giving formula solution).



Agreed. As I said to Fotis, I did not intend my comments to include the original file posted by the OP, which is of course extremely useful for us.

Thanks, Sixth.

Regards

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## romperstomper

I agree with you about the file exchange questions completely. For the most part, the ones I've seen could have easily included the formula or code in the body of the message as well. And I don't happen to subscribe to the 'no attachments' camp - a lot of the type of questions I lean towards are *much* easier to help with if you have a sample file.
One of the forums I frequent had, relatively recently, a discussion amongst the most frequent contributors in which it was agreed that wherever possible the answers should be provided in the thread body as well as in any relevant attachment(s). Perhaps such an agreement would be beneficial here - not a rule, just a collective accord?

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## john55

honestly, I avoid the threads without any details... of course, always a test file makes the life easier than 1/2 page of "dry" explanations 
 :Smilie:

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## XOR LX

> I agree with you about the file exchange questions completely. For the most part, the ones I've seen could have easily included the formula or code in the body of the message as well. And I don't happen to subscribe to the 'no attachments' camp - a lot of the type of questions I lean towards are *much* easier to help with if you have a sample file.



Yes, agreed. I fail to see how you can arrive at the conclusion that either extreme - no attachments or no message body - is the best solution.





> One of the forums I frequent had, relatively recently, a discussion amongst the most frequent contributors in which it was agreed that wherever possible the answers should be provided in the thread body as well as in any relevant attachment(s). Perhaps such an agreement would be beneficial here - not a rule, just a collective accord?



I really like this as a suggestion. I guess my only worry would be whether a "collective accord" to some would not be the very same "rule" to others which you are trying to avoid. Still, sounds like it's worth a shot.

Cheers

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## romperstomper

Well, I'm in, anyway. Although you know how bad my memory is...  :Wink:

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## Kyle123

I wonder how much the policing of the forum has contributed to this. 

Of all the forums in in which I lurk or post, this is by far the harshest for compliance and rigidity of rule enforcing to the point where in some cases it's somewhat draconian. When an OP is abruptly and routinely told to attach a workbook for even the most trivial queries, it's hardly surprising that people now post only a workbook with their question described within and don't repeat themselves in the thread.

Not that I find this desirable or useful (I don't answer these threads), but there are surely things that can be done to address the cause.

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## XOR LX

*@Kyle123*

I think you raise a valid point, but, just to be clear, I was originally referring not so much to the attachment originally posted by the OP, but rather to those from posters giving solutions to the OP.

Regards

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## Tony Valko

> Of course, this is just my personal opinion



I couldn't agree more!

I've "complained" about this before:

https://www.excelforum.com/showthread.php?p=3325291

That post and the next post.

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## Tony Valko

> I wonder how much the policing of the forum has contributed to this. 
> 
> Of all the forums in in which I lurk or post, this is by far the harshest for compliance and rigidity of rule enforcing to the point where in some cases it's somewhat draconian.



Exactly. 





> When an OP is abruptly and routinely told to attach a workbook for even the most trivial queries...



Exactly.

Mods/admins are supposed to be friendly and helpful, not demanding jerks!  :Mad:

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## XOR LX

> I couldn't agree more!
> 
> I've "complained" about this before:
> 
> https://www.excelforum.com/showthread.php?p=3325291
> 
> That post and the next post.



Ah! Didn't realise this had been raised before!

Glad to know in a way then that I wasn't the first to do so!

Regards

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## XOR LX

Are any Mods/Admins other than Fotis willing to comment on this? 

Will the site at least contemplate the solution proposed by romperstomper?

Today's "See attached file" count seems to have reached record levels by the looks of it...

I think it needs consideration and/or action before we reach a stage where this type of response makes up the majority of answers on this forum.

Or perhaps more people are of the opinion that such a situation would not be in any way an issue? Perhaps, to some, even a good thing?

Regards

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## judgeh59

I agree with Rory....I really try to do both in my responses (I didn't always. As I starting helping more I realized this is a good thing)....I really like having a file from the OP because that means I don't have to "fake" data to test...and if the "issue" formatting or pivot tables (like already mentioned) the file can make it easier...but I agree that doing the file by itself with no explaintion is generally not a great way to go...

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## XOR LX

Agreed. Just to clarify again - I have absolutely no issues whatsoever with an OP providing a file - on the contrary, that's an excellent thing!

It's more the people _replying_ to questions with nothing more than a "See attached file" comment, which seems (at least to me) to becoming more and more common here, and which I can't help but think is not a great way for a forum - which is surely as much about _visual_ exchange of information as it is about delivering results - to operate.

Regards

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## judgeh59

I agree (and I understood) that seems to be the general direction....I guess I'm wondering, because this is what to me, there are a lot of new folks in the forum and maybe it is a learning curve to realize that doing both in the response. Maybe something to add to the forum rules as a suggest

Rule 327: When responding to a post, please consider adding comments directly in the post if you are attaching a file...

kind of what Rory was talking about....of course, this assumes they read the forum rules....

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## XOR LX

> ....of course, this assumes they read the forum rules....



Indeed!  :Wink:

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## judgeh59

Which I didn't completely read when I first started... :Smilie:

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## XOR LX

Er, yeah. I was a, er, "late" reader of them myself.  :Cool:

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## judgeh59

At least I'm in good company....

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## JBeaucaire

Me too, I didn't read them at all until I got my first infraction.   :EEK!:

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## judgeh59

me too....and even then, I insensed because I didn't know what he was talking about....oh, READ the rule...okay... :Frown:

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## xladept

What rules :Confused: 


Just as you all seem to agree, I will say that I often am disappointed when, in order to see the solution, you have to download something :EEK!:

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## judgeh59

they are more like guidelines than rules....kind of like stop signs in Idaho

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## FDibbins

I am always willing to add my 2c's worth to a discussion like this  :Confused: 

For me, I try to figure out what the OP wants, and will often ask a few questions to try and figure it out.  However, in some cases, the 1st post is so badly explained (oftentimes because of the language thing), that I will ask for a sample WB fairly quickly.

However, where possible, I try to base my answer on the data/details suppluied and will try and paste the formula IN the thread, and explain where to put it and how to use it...mostly this works for me.

Regarding Kyle's comments, I have always tried to take a friendly approach with all members - especially new members.  My "canned replies" are written with this in mind.  The longer the OP has been a member though, the "stricter" my requests become, I dont see the point of playiong nice to a member with a few 100 posts who gives a thread title on "help with formula"

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## JBeaucaire

To be fair, I was up near 1000 posts before I got infracted for not using code tags, which sent me to the rules page for the first time.  I'm more patient with others as a result of that truth.  Some of our rules are so "obvious" in our minds after all this time we forget what it was like before they were obvious.

By the time someone gets up and out onto the internet looking for expert assistance in Excel, I can't imagine getting your hand slapped for rule infractions with any level of sternness seems reasonable to the OPs.  It does to us, of course, but... well, you know what I mean.

I've seen it so many times, "Welcome to the forum...now STOP SCREWING UP...."  makes me sad.   :Wink: 


StackOverflow is way more stern than we are, MrExcel less strict.  I think we balance it ok, in the long run.

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## TMS

Just to join in ... I have to say that I am "aware" of the rules, but I wouldn't like to be tested on them.  I probably only actively pick up on the first three, will probably report a duplicate post, and rarely know about cross posts.  Oh, and the occasional security breach question.

To get into a debate about rules though is probably a hijack on the thread.

In answer to the original post in this thread, I do think there are a lot more attachment based solutions ... maybe we're seeing some new and active members?

I'd rarely download someone else's solution workbook, although never say never.  Depends on how much I think I might learn from the solution  :Smilie: 

But I am a big fan of OP's sample workbooks at an early stage.  They're not always vital but a lot of the time they'll clear up any misconceptions about the question or, indeed, whether or not I want to get involved.  I've seen a few where I thought I understood the requirement but, when I've opened the sample workbook, I have decided to give it a wide berth.  However, if there isn't a sample workbook and I don't understand the requirement from the description, I don't often ask for one these days ... becoming commitment phobic  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## snb

To day I posted a suggestion ( http://www.vbaexpress.com/forum/show...l=1#post316893) to a question in which I found it rather complicated not to send an attachment.
And on top of that showing the code in the post wouldn't have illustrated the method I tried to show very well.
So there might be exceptions ?

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## romperstomper

There are always exceptions. Like I said originally:




> One of the forums I frequent had, relatively recently, a discussion amongst the most frequent contributors in which it was agreed that *wherever possible* the answers should be provided in the thread body as well as in any relevant attachment(s)



(emphasis added  :Smilie: )

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## XOR LX

Agreed. I never intended to suggest that there would _never_ be situations in which a file alone would be suitable.

More that this was becoming rather the norm here, where I imagine that a lot of those cases are less to do with having debated whether to post comments or not along with the attachment (or even post an attachment at all), and more to do with...well, I don't know, since none of those whose posts seem to follow this pattern on a regular basis have so far chosen to comment here...

Regards

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## romperstomper

Perhaps they are putting their thoughts into workbooks to upload here as we speak?

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## snb

@XOR LX

Don't get me wrong: I agree with you wholeheartedly. I hate opening attachments that do not add anything to the code/formula that could have been inserted in the post in the first place. For that reason I always try to check which code to insert in the post apart from adding an attachment, because using the post  has my preference. In the case I referred to earlier I decided not to, because it would only present a partial impression of the method I was suggesting.
Maybe one of the canned replies could be: can you please insert your attachment's code/formula in the post too ?

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## XOR LX

Perhaps, yes. And of course I understand that it's quite a different scenario for VBA posts as for purely formula-based ones.

If the code in question is particularly long, for example, it might not necessarily be the best thing to attempt to paste it into the post with various explanations. And of course, where it might only create, as you say, a "partial impression".

Regards

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## TMS

There have been occasions where I, or others, have provided a formula or code in the thread and been asked by the OP to put it into their workbook for them.

This worries me a little in that, if they can't copy and adapt what I have given them, they may struggle to understand and change it in the future.

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## XOR LX

> There have been occasions where I, or others, have provided a formula or code in the thread and been asked by the OP to put it into their workbook for them.
> 
> This worries me a little in that, if they can't copy and adapt what I have given them, they may struggle to understand and change it in the future.



I always saw that as their being more lazy than ignorant, pushing you to do what they can't be bothered to do themselves. Though perhaps your explanation is more like the truth. 

Regards

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## JBeaucaire

TMS, I agree, I've often resisted multiple requests to insert my suggested formulas or steps into the workbook for them.  You've all seen my telltale
1) Do this
2) Then this
3) And this
method of posting, an eye towards the future reader in mind.


Admittedly, other times I've posted it all in a workbook, the laziness being on my part in that instance.

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## TMS

To give the benefit of the doubt, what we consider trivial may not be for the person asking the question.

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## xladept

"The exception proves the rule" - I don't know where that saying came from but I've always had difficulty with it.

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## JBeaucaire

That term is used to prove an unspoken rule/truth exists.

_"Clean your plate or no TV"_ is the exception that proves the unspoken rule that eating all your food means TV watching is allowed.

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## ben_hensel

> "The exception proves the rule" - I don't know where that saying came from but I've always had difficulty with it.



Supposedly Cicero: "If there's an exception to a rule, then it follows a rule exists".

Alternatively, it's about proving (in the sense of honing) a rule (in the sense of straightedge).

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## xladept

And I went to Latin School - I should have known - Thanks Ben :Smilie:

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## Tony Valko

Also to be considered...

When it comes time to nominate/vote for forum Gurus, if all your replies are "see the file" then how are we to evaluate your skills/knowledge when those attributes are "hidden" from view?

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## MarvinP

Hi,

I've made it my standard to supply an attachment with my answer.  I feel that having an example with formulas/tables/pivots to play with, along with some explanations is a better answer than either alone.  I've also found that describing a problem in writing is many times much harder than to use a yellow cell on an attached file showing where a problem lies or where a needed result is desired.

Many times I've created the attachment when the OP didn't supply one.  My hope is showing the structure of the problem (normally data in a table) and how to arrive at an answer is more enlightening that a description without the attached example.  

I also find that Code in the wrong place (behind a sheet instead of module or userform) is hard to describe and giving back the file that works is much better than trying to explain it.  Also when the file is supplied in an answer, the OP (or expert) can set breakpoints and step through code to see what might be failing.  This is MUCH better than pasting a line of code saying something like make your "c.Test" a "c.Value" and see if that works.

I pride myself on giving back an attached file.  I believe this also shows an extra effort in trying to solve the OP's question.  

Many times the education of the OP is found by learning more about DNR or CSE type of information.  I think supplying a link to tutorial or instruction pages is more effective than trying to rewrite them in an answer.  Saying "read this link" and see how I've used it in this example is a great way to answer questions.

Is my thinking wrong on these points?

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## TMS

@MarvinP/et al: there's nothing wrong with you providing a worked example of your solution, be it a formula or code.  The gist of the thread is that if the OP simply posts a workbook with little or no description, and then the "expert" replies with ONLY a workbook with no words, formula, code or description of the solution provided, it makes the thread of little value to the wider community.

If a sample workbook is provided, I will often update it and upload it.  If none is provided, but the thread has piqued my interest, I will sometimes produce a sample workbook to demonstrate the solution.  However, more often than not, I will include the code, or formula, in the answering post.  Belt and braces.  Everyone happy ... happy'ish.

Regards, TMS

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## quekbc

I normally try and reply with a descriptive solutions (lest some mods/gurus make a fuss about not providing descriptive solutions) along with an attached solutions. The only exception would be on simple solutions; *OR*

posts that I feel lack an appreciable effort to ask the questions nicely (most of the time, when I see posts like this, I do not respond and move on), like "I have a problem. Please see the attached" and the attached file has no description whatsoever to describe what the issue is and/or what the solution that's required. Or someone posts the entire VBA code and said "This does not run. Why?".

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## Glenn Kennedy

My tuppence worth...  I lack the confidence to write a formula and "just know" that it's correct (damn fiddly commas).  I like to see it work.  So I usually ask for a sheet to be attached or (if it's simple) do it myself.  If one or two formulae are required - I'll put them in the post  and in an uploaded sheet, if it's more than that, I'll usually refer the user to the sheet.  
In addition many answers simply make NO sense unless you know what's in J3 and F4 and Q1110, etc.  Additionally, I'll often offer little explanation until it's working to the OPs satisfaction and then I'll spend time explaining it.  Until it's clear what the OP wants and how he/she wants it to be laid out, I don't see the point in providing detailed explanations.

Horses for courses.

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## Doc.AElstein

My very minor 2 cents...

..I try very hard to get OPs to give clear “Pictures”, be it attachments and / or screenshots ( capable of being copied to a spreadsheet – so NOT images ). I do that here and in another Forum that does not have  attachments and where the discussion thereof comes up very often...
http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/lounge-...um-tools.html?
http://www.mrexcel.com/forum/about-b...eadsheet.html?
..I agree with many of the sentiments here that a combination of attaching a file and a good “Picture” in the Thread is ideal, with an emphasis to giving at least some “Picture” in the Thread. To that end I have spent some time encouraging the “Tools” noted in my signature. And have helped many an OP use or change them for their use, and more recently the “Tool” developed by JBeaucaire:
http://www.excelforum.com/tips-and-t...um-thread.html
.  ( In fact I stumbled on an Italian site the other day using a Screenshot code I developed for an OP. They used it as one of their standard tools.. )
.
.  When an OP in a Thread I answer does not give a good “Picture” in the Thread, but uploads a File, I try to post back in the Thread a screenshot for others to be able to r follow the Thread easier, ( as well as for my own later reference.  )
.  But the bottom line seems that it is difficult to encourage OPs to learn to “use the Tools”, or read the FAXs , posting suggestions etc, especially if they do not intend posting much and just want a quick solution. 
.  But RoryingStompers “Tools” referenced in my signature are worth a try for anyone not yet familiar with them..

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## Tony Valko

http://www.excelforum.com/excel-gene...-birthday.html

Before they change it, it says:





> find the name
> 
> File.xlsx



Good grief!  :Mad:

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## FDibbins

yup, perfect example.  I replied

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## Doc.AElstein

Hi, 




> yup, perfect example.  I replied



.    Ha, and you think he understood one word of what you said!!!
........................................

.  Yipee! Hey my mate is back ! :Smilie: 
http://www.excelforum.com/non-englis...matically.html
http://www.excelforum.com/non-englis...ml#post4179628

.. No problem, I'll sort him out tomorrow, if no one else get on it

.  Gonna be another Donkey of a Thread ( past criticisms noted ) , 

http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...ml#post4180155

....I'll try to behave, can’t promise, though I’m dead exited.  :Smilie: 
Alan


EDIT: shg beat me to it  :Frown: 

http://www.excelforum.com/excel-gene...ml#post4185586

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## JBeaucaire

Doc, as I warned could happen in the other thread, the OP in this thread is certainly detecting your insults.  This officially puts you in breach of the Forum courtesy rule, had they never detected your insult laid at his feet, well maybe that's only half bad, but it's now in the open.





> ....I'll try to behave, can’t promise, though I’m dead exited.



There is no clearer example needed to underline that from now on you won't try to behave, you will behave.  Yes?

If you cannot resist talking down to someone who has asked for help, walk away from the thread.  Leave it for other more patient helpers.

Thanks for your considered cooperation.

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## Doc.AElstein

Hi JBeaucaire




> Doc, ...., the OP .....is certainly detecting your insults. ......
> There is no clearer example needed to underline that from now on you won't try to behave, you will behave.  Yes?...



….… All  was just intended as a bit of light harmless joviality here at Water Colors. Yes of course I had/ have every intention of “behaving” – ( *the Link you referenced and all post were from before your earlier comments,.…*)  and




> Doc, as I warned could happen in the other thread, the OP ..in this thread......



  .. *It is actually the same Thread!!*... as you see it dragged on a bit and the OP changed the requirement etc....( And he is at it again ****
.  I went on through many hours of patient work to get the working solution over to the OP, and he was finally very grateful. One thing people did not see where the extra PM and Email contact he had with me and my strenuous efforts both there to help and in particular to encourage ( or rather to get him to understand !! ) to reply in the Thread. 

.    ( The Email contact was necessary because of many recent forum software problems making both the Forum inaccessible and people not being informed of replies
http://www.excelforum.com/suggestion...ml#post4185499
http://www.excelforum.com/suggestion...ml#post4180394
http://www.excelforum.com/suggestion...ml#post4180513

… so I bent over backwards again to help…
…………….As far as possible (and relevant )  *I brought all info back into the Thread*, , informing the Thread of a new requirement and new code I did for him. All lots of work both to help the OP AND keep *within forum rules to keep things in the Thread as mu*ch as possible. 
. At the end of the Day I did do a lot of work, but your point *is VERY valid that I have no right to “vent” frustration  out by amusing at the Op’s expense.* Again Post #52 was just meant as some light relief here, - The chances of our friend mannos ever coming here is very remote…
.
*.  Sorry for any misunderstanding. My biggest concern is distracting you away from your splendid efforts here. Deep apologies for that.*
…..
… As for our friend mannos….
  I’ll help again if I can there – but shg had done a perfect solution… ( The OP still requires help in understanding    …   applying it …..    )

Alan 

……****… and while I’m here, please if I may  (* a last time* )…… see next post

----------


## Doc.AElstein

Yesterday:




> http://www.excelforum.com/excel-gene...-birthday.html.......
> mannospleaseseefile.JPG
> Good grief!







> yup, perfect example.  I replied



Today:
mannosHijackpleaseseefile.JPG

……. Admit it guys ….   It is a bit funny, in a funny sort of a way….?

…and a Hijack.

. I ( seriously ) wish you luck in trying to put him straight, if you still have the nerve!!!  
@ FDibbins.  *Again my biggest concern is distracting you from your great contributions.* ( BTW. Hope my attempt to help you and be a bit jovial were not taken the wrong way,* apologies* for any wrong doing there
http://www.excelforum.com/excel-prog...ml#post4183257
… Again just trying to help and be a bit light hearted….

. Alan

----------


## JBeaucaire

My reference to "the other thread" was meaning our other thread discussing this, I couldn't locate my previous admonition to you in this thread so I presumed there was a second thread somewhere, forgive me, it's probably this thread and I'm just blind. I understood we were talking about the same OP and same thread, no worries.

My entire time here on the forum has been filled with the light-hearted joking approach to keeping things stress free.  I hope my unfortunately unavoidable cautions to you don't suppress that tendency in you, but simply reminds you to point your humor at yourself, where it is always safest and usually the funniest.  There's simply no safe way to call people names, even in jest, even hidden in uploaded filenames, and have it be acceptable.  Ok?

----------


## Doc.AElstein

> ....I hope my unfortunately unavoidable cautions to you don't suppress that tendency in you, but simply reminds you to point your humor at yourself, where it is always safest and usually the funniest.....  Ok?



.   I’ll try not to suppress it too much, if i can,  I’m a Wanker, and proud of it. 

.  But I hope you can see, I tried incredibly hard to help and got there when all others failed. ( but I am fully aware my total  help, as i have frequently said , is a joke ( in terms of  amount ) compared to all you Guys, )  ...
.   When I get such free help, and patients ( so much patients as I have given i have never had!! ), I would never think of becoming offended by some minor jovialities even if they were at my expense. I have been openly talked down to or plain insulted by Moderators, but remain incredibly grateful for their help. But that is my opinion and on an open forum where all sorts are present, I have no right to expect others to have my opinions. There may still be odd Threads or Posts or Files kicking around with offending stuff in, I can’t check them all, bad enough coping with the Forum Software problems these days..  so if you see anything let me know, I’ll edit.
OK.?

Alan

*EDIT:* as for mannos.. think he's forgiven me




> work good, very good.



... the most detailed and understandable sentance he has given to - date..

 P.s. you’re a sly one...  That “Rocket” Picture ... Ha Ha, . That no one complained about being  intimidated by that Phallus yet

----------


## JBeaucaire

Being moderated is never a pleasant experience.  Even moderators must remain polite in their firm insistence that a behavior be amended.  It is good you forgive the unfortunate tone of such posts, but if you ever see anyone speaking discourteously to anyone else, yourself included, click the REPORT post so that another moderator can review the discussion.  Better safe than sorry.  Moderators must moderate, that's the job, but it never hurts to check each other now and again.

FWIW, the second moderator may find the first moderation perfectly fine and courteous, it is what it is at that point.  :Wink: 

Onward.

----------


## XOR LX

Another illuminating thread:

http://www.excelforum.com/excel-form...ain-reach.html

Regards

----------


## Winon

I echo MarvinP's comment to this Thread.

----------


## Doc.AElstein

I still like the Belt and Braces of the *possibility if needed*  of a Workbook exchange, but trying as well to get as much as possible see able in the thread also. But that does take more time if you do both. Certainly just the Workbook and not much else is not , I think, we all agree a good idea.. ### 
Actually if you can do  without attachments in a particular thread and get enough info back and forth, then I prefer that. There have been some suggestions that the Upload / download facility may have contributed to recent problems Forum Software problems. I must say i have gone away a bit from Attachments over my short Forum career. _ The resulting laziness of the OP which can come in when attachments are allowed, which is what this Thread.. ### was originally aimed at also  encourages me a bit away. The discussion of this Topic over "there" where they do not have attachments is a never ending source of discussion.  ( Most Mods there are well fed up discussing it ). It has always been one of the main distinguishing differences to the two Forums......

Just my last 2 cents on this one..............

----------


## Winon

Would anyone then please be so kind as to provide me with an example of how to explain to an OP how to go about creating a Workbook for himself, without seeing a sample of how it was done? :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

I was going to provide the new OP with just that here: http://www.excelforum.com/excel-gene...ing-on-it.html

With the following message:

"



> Hello nulir,
> 
> Welcome to the Forum.
> 
> By merely clicking on a cell to perform one or other action is more complicated than what it sounds.
> 
> Trying to provide you with sample Code and explaining how to apply it. would be quite difficult.
> 
> As a simple start, please try the attached sample Workbook, in which I have attempted to simplify things for you as much as possible.
> ...



"

----------


## Winon

Maybe I should elaborate a bit more, on my post above, as to how I understand the OP's requirement.

He/She is provided with a list of Items from wherever, and from this list he/she needs to confirm/select which values from this list should be compiled in another Column, for it to be transferred/copied or send to a "SAP" platform.

This requirement is actually copied onto sheet2 of the Workbook as posted above.

It is my honest opinion that some kind of help in this manner would sway a new member to an Excel "Forumalist". :Smilie: 

Please correct me if I am wrong. :Frown:

----------


## JBeaucaire

I have a boilerplate set of text that use to start my response to some noobs in the VBA forum where I have decided they need the experience of reading and installing the VBA I've provided for themselves.  Feel free to adapt this as you see fit:

===========
*How/Where to install the macro:*

1. Open up your workbook
2. Get into VB Editor* (Press Alt+F11)*
3. Insert a new module* (Insert > Module)*
4. Copy and Paste in your code _(given above)_
5. Get out of VBA* (Press Alt+Q)*
6. Save as a macro-enabled workbook

The macro is installed and ready to use. Press *Alt-F8*  and select it from the macro list.



=============
*How to install the User Defined Function:*

1. Open up your workbook
2. Get into VB Editor* (Press Alt+F11)*
3. Insert a new module* (Insert > Module)*
4. Copy and Paste in your code _(given above)_
5. Get out of VBA* (Press Alt+Q)*
6. Save as a macro-enabled workbook

The function is installed and ready to use. 

It is used directly in a cell (like any other formula) like so:

*=MyPricingFun(Price, Qty, Markup, PenaltyDate, PenaltyPercentage)*

*Price* - either put the price here, or reference to a single cell with a price in it
*Qty* - either put the Quantity here, or reference to a single cell with a quantity in it
*Markup* - either put the markup percentage here, or reference to a single cell with a percentage in it
*PenaltyDate* - either put the date here, or reference to a single cell with a date in it
*PenaltyPercentage* - either put the addon percentage here, or reference to a single cell with a percentage in it

----------


## Winon

Hello Jerry,

I sincerely appreciate your response, but the boilerplate set of text may have to be amended laboriously depending on various complexities of any given issue, that I still believe it is much easier and quicker to solve, by establishing exacts from samples. :Smilie: 

Best Regards.

----------


## Winon

Post duplicated, and deleted.

----------


## InvisibleMan

Threads that contain only workbooks are useless to me given that I more often than not browse the forum from an iPad. Even if I can open the workbook, I can't see code, I can't see formulas, and I can't see formatting ...

And, at this moment in time, with the forum inaccessible from a Windows PC, that makes it pointless.

----------


## xladept

I agree - I usually post the code when I post a book.

----------


## xladept

Breaking News!  I was unable to post code today as Sucuri thought it contained HTML - so I just posted the book :EEK!:

----------


## Winon

@ InvisibleMan & xladept,

Sorry, I do not see how your responses address my Posts No.'s 62 and 65. :Confused: 

If you don't mind, please respond to the essence of my Post # 62, without diverting from the issue at stake. :Smilie: 

Thank you kindly. :Wink:

----------


## xladept

Sorry Winon, old friend, I was posting to the original post#1 :EEK!:

----------


## InvisibleMan

@Winon: why should my post, of necessity, answer YOUR post. Unless I am much mistaken, the thread was started by someone other than yourself and the topic is "Please see attached file".





> One of the things I couldn't help noticing is that, recently, the proportion of threads which seem to amount to little more than an exchange of file downloads has increased considerably.
> 
> Quite often you will come across a thread in which, after an initial formulation of the problem by the OP (or sometimes not even that, but an attachment with a comment along the lines of "See attached file for details of what I require") the posts in the thread alternate between a series of attachments with no more than a "Please see attached file"-type comment and a response from the OP as to whether that solution worked or not and, if not, why.



Forgive me, but, if your question does not relate to the original post, then you may be guilty of hijacking this thread.  In any case, I will not be told by anyone, albeit a Forum Guru, when and to what I should provide input.  If your question/point is different to the OP, perhaps you should consider starting a new thread?

Thank you kindly  :Wink:

----------


## LJMetzger

> Winon said:
> Would anyone then please be so kind as to provide me with an example of how to explain to an OP how to go about creating a Workbook for himself, without seeing a sample of how it was done?



You have to tell the OP exactly what keystrokes are needed.

For example:
a. From the Windows 8.1 Desktop, 'Right Click' the Windows Icon at the bottom left of the screen.
b. Left Click 'Run'.
c. Type 'Excel' and select 'OK' to open a Blank Excel Workbook.
d. If Excel does not fill the entire screen, 'Left Click' the 'Maximize' Icon (next to the 'x') at the top right of the screen.
e. 'Left Click' the 'Sheet2' Tab at the bottom of the screen.
f. 'Left Click' Cell 'D1'.
g. Type 'abc' (no quote marks), then press the 'Enter' key.

It's a very painful process, but very effective. It's the only way I maintain sanity, when giving computer instructions to my wife. :Smilie:  :Smilie:  :Smilie:  :Smilie: 

Lewis

----------


## InvisibleMan

Well done. Another Forum Guru continues the hijack!

----------


## Doc.AElstein

I believe the rules are a bit relaxed in this Sub Forum. We often wander of the Theme. But often it does no harm..  brings out some of the real people......  :Smilie: 
Check out some of the dark secrets  about peoples personal preferences here. Wuf Wuf.. Wonk...
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...ml#post4156554

----------


## Winon

@ Doc.AElstein,





> I believe the rules are a bit relaxed in this Sub Forum. We often wander of the Theme. But often it does no harm..



Thank you for the above statement. 

@ LJMetzger,





> It's a very painful process, but very effective. It's the only way I maintain sanity, when giving computer instructions to my wife...



LOL your very painful process stops at "G", yet it could continue way beyond that! :EEK!: 

@ xladept,





> Sorry Winon, old friend, I was posting to the original post#1



No harm done good friend! :Wink: 

@ InvisibleMan,





> @Winon: why should my post, of necessity, answer YOUR post. Unless I am much mistaken, the thread was started by someone other than yourself and the topic is "Please see attached file"....
> and ...Forgive me, but, if your question does not relate to the original post, then you may be guilty of hijacking this thread. In any case, I will not be told by anyone, albeit a Forum Guru, when and to what I should provide input. If your question/point is different to the OP, perhaps you should consider starting a new thread?



And further fuel on the Fire, in response to a reply from  LJMetzger.





> Well done. Another Forum Guru continues the hijack!



Well done  LJMetzger, you treated this with dignity. :Wink:  

@ The Water Cooler,

If anyone fails to see the relevance of my post to the original Post, then please don't label it as a "Hi-Jack" of a Thread.  

*Common courtesy is the order of the day.* Avoid coarse language, personal attacks and inflammatory remarks. Address your concerns at topics and not at people. 

Aside from transgressing my own principles, by including quotes from InvisibleMan, this once off, I also refuse the steep so low as to attack and or reprimand any other member of this Forum in person, or to respond to any such attempts by others.

Thank you all Kindly!

----------


## InvisibleMan

My comment did not contain coarse language, and was not meant to be a personal attack or inflammatory. 

If you consider it so, for that, I apologise. However, my point stands that my post responded to the OP, not yours.

----------


## Tony Valko

They didn't even bother with the "See the file"...

https://www.excelforum.com/showthread.php?p=4325723

----------


## InvisibleMan

Difficult to know what to make of that.  Seems, in sheet2, that it highlights cells that match the equivalent cell in sheet1.  And, to that end, it seems to work.

I wonder what the question might have been?  Not in the thread, not in the attachment.

----------


## FDibbins

I have responded to that thread

----------


## InvisibleMan

Ah, seems I went in half way through the thread  :Frown:   Oops.

----------


## Tony Valko

This seems to be getting more prevalent and some mods are even doing it.

Trying to convince folks to not do this is a lost cause (and a waste of time).  :Frown: 

Maybe we should all start doing this? I'll bet that'd get someone's attention!

----------


## Doc.AElstein

> This seems to be getting more prevalent and some mods are  doing it ...
> ....... .....



I feel your pain.
That is an Inevitable outcome I guess,  as some Prominent members say that attachments is one of the main reasons they post at Excel Forum. 
_.................




> ..... ...
> Trying to convince folks to not do this is a lost cause (and a waste of time). .....



I confess i have lost a bit of interest trying to encourage better explanations and / or screen shots ( not images ) in the post.

May be Some emphasis should be put on encouraging also using the screen shot Tools ( Not images ) in addition to using attachments.
But even on Forums that  have many such Tools and no attachments it is still very difficult to get an OP to start using them.  I have sometimes pasted back screen shots of parts of an attached Workbook. But that is a bit impractical for the regulars answering so many questions. That should be down to the OPs  

But As you say Tony, it often seems a bit of a lost cause... as long as people want to answer such Threads..   ..or themselves answer with just a an attachment.

I find that personally a shame. I think it encourages laziness in the OP, which  is disrespectful to the people giving their time voluntarily to help people. But just  IMHO. If people are happy to answer such Threads I respect that. I cannot really criticise people answering with just an attachment Â I guess who voluntarily helps has a right to answer as he / she  chooses....   although....   there are of course rules on how you answer as well   :Wink:   .........


Anyway, I have done my bit to encourage using  Tools  :Wink: 

Alan


P.s. 
( On a lighter note!!  In a mod contract it should state they agree to learn to use and use The screen shoot tools. On penalty of reduction in salary, say 50%. But as 50% of 0 is zero ( I think ),  i guess there would not be much incentive there Lol  :Smilie:  )

----------


## Tony Valko

> Hi
> 
> Please see attached sheet, and solve that.
> 
> Please post formula as early as possible



Yes, Master.

Whatever you say, Master.  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## JackSheet_1

..... :Confused: 

Even with a File !!!!

http://www.excelforum.com/showthread...t=#post4371475

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Doc.AElstein

*Text-to-columns-like (probably) VBA script* 
http://forum.chandoo.org/threads/cre...a-comma.29484/
http://www.excelforum.com/showthread...t=#post4396559



 Hi,
*Don’t get me wrong,* I am having fun, fantastic Thread, very rich and I am sure many are learning a lot from it.
 It is actually a very simple problem, ( Even I was able to give a working solution !!! )  and the OP has many great solutions, all of which work great. In the meantime he is finding more elsewhere, other Forums, giving them , - they work as well, so again enriching the Thread...
 But the OP is puzzling.. ( and makes me laugh Lol )      :Smilie: 

This is my Summary of the OP, “pseudo quoted.” ( Post about 50, and counting the last time looked !! )

__............Hi,  so maybe I want a button in a File please, here is some data. So when the button is pressed it works.  I think I want this.....not too sure like maybe...  .   ._
_... :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
Many great Woking solutions later
__..... wow great codes thanks reps too you all . Working great. Or maybe they would, or not. But they all error. Cant say more than that as I do not know what a code is_
 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
A day or two   Pause..  In the meantime the Thread is enriched with some detailed explanations of the solutions..
_.... then he is back

_ Hey Code tags – wow yeah thanks that’s neat. Only been here 3 years so I had not got that yet. Live and learn..._
 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 
_...............

_ I posted here... “ ___” in this Forum in the meantime,  and got another code. Great works with any amount of data for me. But it don’t work. I am hoping you can all come together here, in another Forum,  or somewhere, get your heads together and please help futher.._

_Anyway, Off now to some other Forums to get a few more experts in on this one..

 I love you all, - want your babies, Please come together and help me further.._

_......
 The OP is polite, over  generous with his Reps, and like I say, I find it amusing..I like him.
 I fear he may be mad like me ( only meaning that very light heartedly  - no offence to the OP there ) 

 We’ll sort him out.      :Smilie:  :Smilie: 
 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic): 

Alan
(_...   Forum Expert.. Ha  - ...........Laugh  -..  I almost did	  http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...apologies.html     .......:_)

----------


## TMS

Hmmm ... the phrase 



> I love you all, - want your babies ...



 doesn't sound much like a *him*

----------


## Doc.AElstein

Hi Trevor   :Smilie: 




> Hmmm ... the phrase  I love you all, - want your babies ...   doesn't sound much like a *him*



Just a fun Phrase we used to use down south ( used by a woman or  man, just for fun ) , at least 30 years ago, when I was there...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...ur%20babies%22

That never got past the North South Divide to you "Northerners" ?

( No offence - you know i migrated to Salford, ...the Great City of... before migrating again to the Father Land
 :Wink: 

EDIT:
_.. just practicing my new "Powers"  ... for fun ( A canned reply thing !!! )

Unfortunately _your post does not comply with Rule 2 of our Forum_ RULES. *Do not post a question in the thread of another member -- start your own thread.* 

If you feel an existing thread is particularly relevant to your need, provide a link to the other thread in your new thread. 

Old threads are often only monitored by the original participants.  New threads not only open you up to all possible participants again, they typically get faster response, too.

Lol   Lol   Lol  * "  Oh the "power" of it. !!  "*

----------


## xladept

What have I done :EEK!:

----------


## Doc.AElstein

*Alan*
(_...   *Forum Expert.*. Ha  - ...........Laugh  -..  I almost did	  http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...apologies.html     .......:_)






> What have I done



I want your babies

*x*

----------


## Tony Valko

Lol!

----------

----------


## Doc.AElstein

Is this real or am I in a bad dream
http://www.excelforum.com/showthread...t=#post4425251
He had a requirement that he gave a brief description about.
After asking for amore info he uploaded a File
The File had no relation to the original request
After queering that he said,.... along the lines
_Yes I Know. I do not have to do that now. I have a different task now and that is the File for it.
_He has supplied no information of what he has to do ( and what he wants me or someone to do for him instead ) 
Interesting.

----------


## xladept

Yumpin' Yiminy :EEK!:

----------


## FDibbins

Sometimes, it's better to just quietly walk away and move on  :Smilie:

----------


## Doc.AElstein

> Sometimes, it's better to just quietly walk away and move on



Or run screaming  Lol...   





Seems it was no big deal - OP was just late doing his with Homework and panicking to get it done quickly by someone !! - Question were all neatly listed in the 'Comments in a Module, Lol..
 :Smilie:

----------


## JBeaucaire

So, should we post some random answer not related to the unstated question?

----------


## Doc.AElstein

> So, should we post some random answer not related to the unstated question?



 :Smilie:   lol..
I did think of just posting him a random File, lol! ...  But despite his obvious bad doings ( which considering he has been member over 6 months and still does not know what a code tags he has !! ), he is at least a bit apologetic. And so we have tried to help a bit with his Homework, in a non cheating way.  I think at the end of the day he just left it a bit late to do his homework, we have probably all done that at some time, and wished we could get someone to do it for us...   
_ I Never had the Internet myself, -  But I confesse (  just the once, honest  ! ), I Âborrowed" a submitted experiment report from a colleague... to get a Practical  Experiment Homework done in time ....

_... Any other ÂoutingsÂ on Homework cheating ?? Lol
 :Smilie: 
Alan

P.s. Cheating on Homework is cheating yourself of an education. A Sin, but mostly you punish yourself..

Cheating an exam is something else, -  THAT IS BAD... IMO,......just to get that straight.* DO NOT DO THAT*

----------


## Doc.AElstein

:EEK!: 
What the ____ is this

http://www.excelforum.com/showthread...t=#post4449743

----------


## Glenn Kennedy

____ me!  BtW - has XOR LX (the starter of this thread) abandoned EF?  He doesn't seem to have been around...

----------


## Doc.AElstein

> ____ me!  BtW - has XOR LX (the starter of this thread) abandoned EF?  He doesn't seem to have been around...



He had it bad to access the site back at the start of the year when EF got hit  :Frown: 
Sad loss

----------


## Glenn Kennedy

Maybe he'll drift back again.  He (amongst many other familiar "faces" here) helped me hugely when I joined, and kept me right when I offer/offered poor advice to others.

----------


## Doc.AElstein

What about Guess what I want and do it all for me
http://www.excelforum.com/showthread...36#post4479236

----------


## JapanDave

Nice thread.

----------


## BlindAlley

As a noobie contributor to this EXCEL - ent forum, I have read this thread with interest.

I have been guilty of posting a workbook without explaining in the reply text what the answer was but in fairness these posts are usually from new excel users and most require a basic =SUM or basic =IF formulas, should I post these too ?? Anything above the basics I will explain and show the formulas in the text as I believe other users / readers may look at these relatively complex formulas and think, Hmmmmm, I think that may work for me !! I know I do..I have unashamedly stolen some of the 'GURU' formulas I see on here and recreated them in a Formula example workbook that I have created for my own reference to use later on.

What does annoy me are OP posts that are just a huge paragraph of text and formulas or a jpg, WHAT ??? you want me to spend time building a worksheet to supply the answers !!!! I _(and I am sure that many of you guys have)_ spent that time, supplied the answers, and not even been given a courtesy "Awesome, thanks for solving that.." post back. 

On the other hand I see MODS jumping in on reply #2 with '_In my opinion anyway_' seems to be a rather abrupt "hey you have broken the rules dummy, change your title, post a sample sheet, and explain what you WANT !!!! Because I am stopping anybody replying until you do that, OK".

Encouraging new forum members is paramount to maintaining a lively forum.

No finger pointing or offense meant to anyone on this thread implied.

PS: Can a super MOD take away my infraction points - I feel like I got sent to the Headmaster for 6 of the best :-)

----------


## Doc.AElstein

Hi BlindAlley,
  There seems to be a tendency for the Moderating to be getting less heavy handed, and the Canned Replies are often being toned down a bit... often that is discussed
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...ml#post4349366
http://www.excelforum.com/suggestion...e-problem.html

_... ....






> ....
> PS: Can a super MOD take away my infraction points - I feel like I got sent to the Headmaster for 6 of the best :-)



They may go away eventually, at least as far as being displayed ??
http://www.excelforum.com/suggestion...ml#post4449520

Although Some very senior members seem to still "have one from much earlier? 
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...xperience.html



or maybe only you can see them
http://www.excelforum.com/suggestion...fractions.html


Alan



EDit: They can be.. but aren't usually
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...ml#post4249685

----------


## XOR LX

> He had it bad to access the site back at the start of the year when EF got hit 
> Sad loss



I'm back! 

Your assessment is correct, however. I couldn't even post up until a few weeks ago. In any case, it's true that I'd become a bit disillusioned with this site after all the technical issues it seemed to be having. Hoping that all is well on that front now?  :Confused: 





> Maybe he'll drift back again.  He (amongst many other familiar "faces" here) helped me hugely when I joined, and kept me right when I offer/offered poor advice to others.



Thanks, Glenn.  :Smilie:

----------


## TMS

Infractions don't go away on their own. They stop being visible to the public after a couple of weeks but you will still be able to see them, like it or not.

Apparently, Admins can remove them but rarely, if ever, do so.

Badge of honour, my ar$3. Talking point, maybe  :Wink:

----------


## Doc.AElstein

Who can give an Infraction ?

Do they come from neagative Reps ?

----------


## JBeaucaire

Infractions are issued by moderators for rule breaches from people who clearly should know better by now.

----------


## Glenn Kennedy

Sound of wrists being slapped...

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## JBeaucaire

Hah!  That's exactly what it feels like.  I will never forget how livid I was over my  first CODE TAGS infraction.  I went off on the moderator who did it.  Took me two days to calm down, and of course, by then, I knew he was right, but I'd already fired that cannon.

Ahhhh..... the gold old days.

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## Logit

All:

I'm a newbie, attempting to learn on my own.   The process of "See attached" ... thank you ma'am and Bye ! doesn't accomplish much - I agree. However, don't take away the posting of example projects. There are lots of newbies perusing the contents of posts, seeking to gain a better understanding of how things work and what makes them work ... and why.  The "why" part is what is being discussed here and why I agree that simply posting a project with no explanation doesn't benefit much except maybe the professional programmers working for a living who already understand and are pushed against a time line to complete their assigned project.

My entire life has been evidenced with the need to 'see' something ... dissect it in my mind to understand ... and then apply that limited knowledge with the 'book' knowledge.

Just 'book knowledge' doesn't work for me. I need to see it -  turn it around - dissect it ... change things and see what happens. Without a little push of the example project - my learning curve (at least) would become a cliff.


The knowledge most of you have and share with folks like me is priceless. Keep us newbies in mind.


My 2 cents ... don't flame me, please. Just offering another view.

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## Tony Valko

Infractions...

How childish!

ROTFLMAO

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## MarvinP

Hey Logit,

I always wonder if this thread is because I sometimes post an attached file that shows the answer (IMHO).  I'd rather look at an attached workbook than a long text description of the problem.  I too like to play with the problem and change stuff myself to figure out what is going on.  I think the real problem is about OP's (original posters, who start threads) that think we are supposed to solve their problem for free and they don't need to learn anything from our effort.  We have a few of those members who don't seem to learn anything new and simply earn money from our efforts.  

I hope it is ok to post an answer to a problem by simply attaching the answer workbook!!

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## Doc.AElstein

> ...
> I hope it is ok to post an answer to a problem by simply attaching the answer workbook!!



	IMO when someone gives free help, they have a right to decide how...!.... I also think they should not be expected to take even more time to  write extra pages of explanation. I say that despite being one who always asks for , and am very keen to have, very detailed explanations.....
_....            I am grateful , however, for any help I get. I am more than happy , as far as I am able, to add explanations / feedback so as  to add to the Thread content and the learning there from for others catching the thread at a late date , ( If only for myself, when I forget and cannot find my own notes in my badly organised system  .. lol..  )

     I frequently feel very frustrated in not getting explanations, as I am so keen to learn, and un keen to use code  do not understand. But I cannot understand anyone criticising the form in which they get free help. That is a level of arrogance beyond me to understand, thinking we are here to serve.

            I think as someone getting free help, often very valuable help, you should accept the way in which it is presented, ( even if it is not necessarily to your taste.......)

  If I had the slightest very very small criticism of a helper, it might be to those that appear on a quest to get their post count up. The ones that jump into a Thread with a small , not particulary helpful commentl like "did you try"... and then suggest something I probably even mentioned I  tried..  or drop a link which is the first one you google with the Thread Title..... but that is really only a problem when it is the first Reply, and you lose the chance of getting picked up as a Zero Reply Thread -  that happen sometimes.. 

_....

           I do get very put off by the OP’s that post very little detail , probably just posting on the off chance that they get an answer, often cross posting. Or the ones that love you to death while they are getting something from you, then treat you like dirt if you are unable or unwilling to help further.
           But you get a sense after a while I suppose, of what sort of Ops you are dealing with.
 I am still in two minds as to whether we should make more use of the –ve Rep possibility. 
http://www.excelforum.com/suggestion...riously-2.html
        It might just encourage re registering under a new name, to hide previous bad doings, and to get the benefit of sympathy through  “newbie status”  - better the Devil you know !!!

Alan

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## TMS

I think the point of the thread is to highlight the issues of a) people posting a sample workbook with (maybe) a comment that the question, etc., is in the workbook., and b) those who respond to a thread in a similar vein, perhaps in retaliation.  That is, just a workbook, no commentary.

Personally, I try to include a level of detail in the post and supplement it, where necessary, with an updated sample workbook.

I guess, like most things, we have different viewpoints.

If I can say something simple like "put this formula in cell C2 and copy it down", I probably wouldn't bother with a workbook.  If it's got a complex formula, maybe Regional Setting issues, or some long winded code, I almost certainly would.

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## Glenn Kennedy

As I've said previously on this thread, some solutions are easily followed by posting the formula in the thread.  In that case, generally, I'll do so.  In other cases, that won't be the case, and so I won't post the formula outside the file attachment.

I, personally, have few/no problems with "see attached file" problems as the fractured English employed by many posters are often far more easily solved when you see what they're actually after oin an attached sheet.  It also (tends to) makes them post more representative samples.  The lack of representative samples, on the other hand, REALLY pi$$es me off.  When you see an embarrassed "giggle" from the OP, who says something like, "maybe I've done myself a disservice, by oversimplifying..." (especially if you've spent an age sorting out their problem) I just want to reach for my revolver.  i don't own a revolver, but at times like that....

I've spent 25 years working with folk in countries where English is (at best) their second language.  That I will tolerate and make allowances for.  Fools, on the other hand....

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## Glenn Kennedy

A bl00dy-minded rant is awfully good for you, every now and again...

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## JapanDave

Hmmm, I am surprised I don't have more.

infractions.jpg

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## Logit

I didn't realize you could look at actions/infractions placed on your membership. I don't think I have any (praying) ... but if there were - where do you find it ?

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## Doc.AElstein

> I didn't realize you could look at actions/infractions placed on your membership. I don't think I have any (praying) ... but if there were - where do you find it ?



*Hi Logit*
      I am not sure exactly where it is to be found ( Edit or maybe I can***) , someone that has had the “privilege” will easily be able to tell you for sure. This is because they get them thrown in their face forever apparantly!! So if you had one I expect you would know. Many Long term regulars often complain that they are “haunted” them for ever,

_  - Check the referenced Links in my *post #105* in this Thread ( the one we are in  now )
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...ml#post4484725

_......
*For example*, ***maybe I can work it out where you would see them:_.....
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...xperience.html

_........If you check out the screenshot in post #1 there 
http://www.excelforum.com/attachment...1&d=1448434211
LatestInfractionsRecieved.JPG
http://imgur.com/DqQOeyP
LatestInfractionsRecieved.JPG

_ so you will probably now actually see ( or not !!!  ) where you would see them . 

_ If you had any they would  to be sandwiched between: 

_your list of Recent ( “Latest” ) Posts in Threads you are subscribed to (*Subscribed Threads with New Posts* )
_   here they would be
_your list of *Latest Reputations Received*


Those things are to be found in your *User Control Panel*, UCP

_......

!!!
If you are not sure how to see that User Control Panel, ....... there are Three ways to access your *User Control Panel*, UCP:
( _0H -__ You must be logged in ) 
*_Won -*____ Hit *Settings*
*_Too -*  _____Hit *User CP*
*_Free -*  ____use the URL Link to it   http://www.excelforum.com/usercp.php

UserCP123.JPG(WonTooFree)
http://imgur.com/3pctilE
UserCP123.JPG



_.. And here is the same screen shot again when you have recent Posts in Threads you are subscribed to. ( Subscribed Threads with New Posts )
UCPNewPosts.JPG
http://imgur.com/98Xyfog
UCPNewPosts.JPG



_ So you , comparing with the first screen shot in this Post, can see I have not had the “privilege” of an infraction, despite my best efforts  :Wink: 

_Most Regulars change their settings to receive no Email Notifications of Replies to subscribed Threads  ( Subscribed Threads with New Posts )  This is because  they answer so many that they would be inundated by Emails!! Because of this , they rely on their UCP  to keep up to date on Threads they are involved in. And of course they get many Reps. So you will see they get the “reminder” of their earlier wrong doings thrown up at them every day!!! ( For their Reps they only get shown approximately the last 100 I believe )

_......

*BTW: It is worth checking your User Control Panel, UCP, frequently*. This is because the ExcelForum software often plays up and you do not get the Email Notifications of replies to Threads you are subscribed to. In the times that this has occurred, the UCP, has maintained its  functionality. But note: I have found that the list of Subscribed Threads with New Posts sometimes has only displayed for a few hours, ( unlike the Latest Infractions Recieved  which appear there for ever !!) . So if you are waitng for a response it might be worth checking the User C P frequently in times that the Email Notifications are not working. ( Or check it at least a coule of times a day anyway - Put the UCP URL in your Browser "Quick Link Favourite thing, or whatever,"I would recommend )

*Alan*

P.s. I suppose if you wanted to be sure where any infractions that you had would be shown, ... You could ask a Moderator *very impolitely* for an infraction .. Lol...   :Smilie: 
http://www.excelforum.com/the-water-...ml#post4484849
 :Smilie:

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## JapanDave

> I didn't realize you could look at actions/infractions placed on your membership. I don't think I have any (praying) ... but if there were - where do you find it ?



Call me an idiot and that should fire me up, after a bit , you will get an infraction, so will I. But it is well worth the experience.

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## Pete_UK

Back to the main thread, here's one you might care to look at:

http://www.excelforum.com/excel-form...atch-data.html

I didn't bother.

Pete

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## TMS

@Pete: I did look at the attachment. It didn't help  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

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## Glenn Kennedy

> @Pete: I did look at the attachment. It didn't help



Ithink I know what he wanted; but I guarantee that the sample is going to be totally unrepresentative.  So I went away...

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## JapanDave

Whoops ,I answered.

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## Doc.AElstein

How do you say in Hindu
"...._.Don't saw off the Branch you are sitting on_  ..."??
http://www.excelforum.com/showthread...t=#post4496123
Lol... :Smilie: 

P.s. Email Notifications of Replies to Threads ( should you opt to recieve them ) are not working again  :Frown:

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